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Old 10-03-2017, 16:25   #166
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

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Originally Posted by arsenelupiga View Post
How can anyone with ratio above 1 have trouble reaching 100% ?!

Maybe your solar do not do well when shaded or cloudy ?
Recharging time has very little to do with battery bank size. It takes roughly the same time to put 100 AH back into a 300AH bank as a 3000 AH bank. There is a difference, however with battery type. Its slower to put the final 5% of charge into lead acids than into LiFePO4 battery banks.
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Old 10-03-2017, 17:58   #167
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

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Recharging time has very little to do with battery bank size. It takes roughly the same time to put 100 AH back into a 300AH bank as a 3000 AH bank. There is a difference, however with battery type. Its slower to put the final 5% of charge into lead acids than into LiFePO4 battery banks.
Yes, but no. Putting back a 100 Ah into a big batt will be faster than in a small batt, provided you have a power source larger than what the small batt can accept in bulk and/or absorption.

Anyway, trying to be useful to Dave here .. I have sailed extensively another L440 which had one freezer and one fridge both 230W expensive latest generation 5 stars and so on, as compared to mine which has 2 fridges 12V crapy & expensive. Same stuff otherwise: LEDs & radio & computers. Result was about the same: from 100 Ah to 250 Ah overnight* depending one how many guests were onboard and how long was the night ... You will be fine with 840 Ah, and you will gather intesresting stats over the first year, most probably those batts will be enough for a long time !

* By overnight I actually mean from the moment in the afternoon/evening when the shunt starts counting negative amps to the morning when it becomes positive. hopefully this is clear enough ...
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Old 12-04-2017, 12:36   #168
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Hi all and apologies for not posting in quite a while. He's a brief update on why and what's been going on.

For those who are maybe in the process of buying, saving, planning or just dreaming of buying a yacht I think I should point out, it's not easy! I'm embarrassed to say and I guess this why I haven't been keeping up with the thread is I thought the purchase might just all fall thru (it very nearly did). It's been stressful to say the least.

Without going into too much detail, I kind of bought a boat I couldn't afford. I know I'm not the first and for sure I won't be the last but it really hit home when my accountant said to me "what the f*** is wrong with you, who puts a deposit down on a boat without any money?" Well, that's exactly what I did. [emoji15].

I think there is something about the lure of boat ownership that defies logic and emotion takes over and I'm glad it does because I think some of the best decisions in life are made with the heart and not the head. I'm ranting now... but anyway, I think we are back on track with some slight adjustments to the plan. Nobody buys a boat because it is a good investment (BOAT : Bring Out Another Thousand) (big whole in the ocean you pour money into) etc etc we do it because we love being by the sea, in the sea, on the sea etc and it's worth it to us.

Anyhow, thanks again to all who have been giving advice so far and I'll try to keep this up to date again.
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Old 13-04-2017, 00:14   #169
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

No problems Dave we all a have done rash or silly things when it comes to boats. If you need to lower your standards that fine, what ever it takes to to float your boat so to speak.

Something like this although its not a Cat would respond well to a bit of cut and polish and you could soon have it gleaming although floating maybe a step to far.



Just messing with yer mate, but tread carefully around Accountants and their running mates, Lawyers they will mess you up quicker than a 90 degree wind change.: smile:

PS: So have you, or have you not purchased the boat then.
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Old 13-04-2017, 00:58   #170
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

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PS: So have you, or have you not purchased the boat then.
I've bought it... just haven't paid for it yet! I WILL make it happen tho.
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Old 13-04-2017, 11:06   #171
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

There is always financing...or buy the boat into a charter plan...or as a last resort, just buy a base price boat, and whenever cash is at hand, start adding on the boat the options you like.. just saying, buying all in cash isn't the only option out there.
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Old 26-04-2017, 14:20   #172
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

How's this coming along Dave?
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Old 28-04-2017, 00:36   #173
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Hi guys,

Well, we have sold everything we own to get this far, including my mrs doing flea markets and selling half her clothes (she still has enough to fill a department store though) and we've moved into my wife's parents house while we make these final preparations.

Our last resort was to put the boat into charter, that would obviously be a way for us to still own and use the boat but doesn't tick any other boxes for us at the moment. It's a great way to own a boat but just doesn't suit us.

I paid the deposit from the sale of our last boat and planned to pay the balance from the sale of our apartment and this is where I over estimated the property market. It didn't sell! The property market in Dubai has come to a standstill and we had hardly any interest whatsoever in 5 months.

So that left us with only one option, to finance the buy, which is what I am doing now.

While we are in the UK we are taking the time to do some shore based RYA courses and get everything else ready before heading over to France to collect the boat. If all goes to plan we should be launching at the end of May.

I'm no catamaran expert but I've got some friends that are so i'm hoping to employ one to come with us and commission the boat. I want someone on our side to pick all the holes in the boat before we accept handover. If anyone has any advice on this then it will be hugely appreciated. What areas are common problems during handover and what do we need to avoid?

This dream is getting frighteningly close to actually happening and we can't wait!
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Old 28-04-2017, 01:11   #174
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Well done Dave, remember the risks in chasing a dream are far less than the regret of never trying.
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Old 28-04-2017, 10:00   #175
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Dave you asked for advice on the handover. I wrote this whilst pickup a 52F (not mine) in March from the factory. I'm sure it's not complete. Allow two days to get through this and a test sail.

Lagoon handover checklist

Gel coat defects (chips, swirls and weird patches) --
- Look from all angles maybe use a torch
- Look especially at lids and doors.

Silicon excess or lack of --
- Windows
- Trim pieces (especially around saloon windows front, back and sides)
- Joints
- Toe rails
- Hatches
- Seats / seat cushions.

Upholstery & canvas --
- Stitching
- Marks (from silicon)
- Fit
- Attachment points

Hinges & locks --
- Are doors hung squarely
- Does everything close easily
- Do the locking mechanisms work easily
- Struts working and secured correctly.

Plumbing --
- Freshwater pump on and check for leaks (water in bilge or pump cycling)
- Check tanks fill 100% ( shine a bright torch into them)
- Turn all valves
- Check for labels
- Check all shower pumps
- Check bilge float switches.
- Check for crap in bilges.
- Get schematics

Scratches on wood work --
- Check all floors
- Cabinets inside
- Walls
- Doors
- Door frames

Windows --
- check for scratches inside and out

Ceiling --
- All panels properly fitted
- Marks or scratches.

Fridges & Freezers --
- check doors open, close and lock properly
- Check lights work
- Check temp with a cheap thermometer

12v --
- All lights working.
- All pumps working
- Everything on the panel
- Check alternators working at x amps
- Check gauges.

230v --
- Connect shore power
- Test water heater
- Battery chargers
- Inverters
- Aircon
- Everything on the panel
- Check gauges

Stainless steel --
- All welds
- All attachment points
- All rivets
- All safety lines
- Boarding ladder
- Stern ladder

Mast and rigging --
- Understand and test all halyards and sheets
- Go up the mast and test fittings, take photos, etc
- Check boom
- Look at shrouds and attachment points.
- Ask about shroud tension
- Check furler
- Check winches and deck blocks
- Check goose neck and pin
- Check blocks and jammers

Engines & Saildrives --
- Signs of oil or water leaks
- Oil and water levels.
- All gauges functioning.
- Gears engage correctly.
- Alternators charge.
- Normal levels of vibration.
- get Yanmar impeller puller part no 129671-92110

Genset --
- vibration no load and load
- Leaks
- Quality of instal.

Inventory --
- Check against standard specs
- Check all options included

Electronics --
- Turn everything on
- Correct maps installed
- Plotter function
- Autopilot function
- Autopilot remote works
- Radar function
- Sounder function
- VHF
- AIS
- Can pair IPad with B&G
- All manuals present.

Steering --
- turn lock to lock
- Check for rudder post movement
- Check bolts securing hydraulic ram to rudder tie bar
- Check bolts securing rudder tie bar to rudder arms.
- Understand valves etc

Spares from factory ask for or buy --
- The standard hex head screws Lagoon uses
- Two lights
- Two switches
- Cabinet latch
- Draw latch
- Gelcoat?
- Fabric for cushions?
- Things that secure cushions to seats.
- Things that attach ceiling and some wall panels.

Spares not from factory --
- Yanmar belts, impellers and filters
- Genset belts, impeller and filters
- Outboard engine spares
- Watermaker spare kit
- Oils, engines, saildrives, steering, outboard and genset
- Annodes
- Shower pump
- Bilge Pump
- Float switch
- Rope for halyards, reefs, etc


Tools & consumables --
- Metric sockets and ring spanners and spanners
- Pliers, multigrips, screwdrivers, knives, calipers, etc
- Quality adjustable spanners x 2 (for large bolts and pipe fittings)
- Hacksaw
- Rivet gun, rivets and goo to insulate rivets from aluminum
- Multi-meter, wire crimpers, Heat gun, tape, solder, heatshrink, spare wire, wire connectors, fuses, circuit breakers, etc.
- Cable ties
- Ratchet straps
- Silicon
- Loctite
- Hose, joiners, jubilee clamps, thread tape.
- Epoxy
- Gaffer tape
- SS nuts, bolts and washers in various sizes
- Rubber mat
- Yanmar impeller puller
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Old 28-04-2017, 14:58   #176
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Dave,
thanks for sharing all your story with us! On the technical side to progress on the solar, but even more on the "buying at the edge". Damn i'm far too conservative and envy you!

John (Holbrook),
Thank you for the list. So how many things had to be fixed!? Was it a smooth handover? As it was a L52 you got, it would make it for a balance to the other L52 horror story!
Would you consider worth it for people with min knowledge to even hire a independent professional to review the boat (like when you buy used)? Or if you trust your broker and work out a list as exhaustive as possible this would be enough ?
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Old 28-04-2017, 16:12   #177
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

Hi C-reel,

This wasn't my boat. It was my brokers idea of a "test drive" and original meant to be on a 450S which is the boat my wife and I want but that fell through and the ride on the 52F came up.

I would expect my broker to be at handover inspecting the boat with me. You need someone who is familiar with the likely problems. 90% of the problems we found were gel coat and silicon related. Lagoon had a team of two people fixing all the problems over two days. One But this was at their yard in Bordeaux, I'm not sure what happens if your boat is smaller than the 52 and built in Nantes and then transported to La Rochelle.

Over the next month and 5000nm we had a panel fall off a bathroom wall, a shower dirty water pump fail, problems with water getting in and stopping two small B&G displays on the flybridge (but not the chartplotter) and a few loose screws. I was pretty impressed.


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John (Holbrook),
Thank you for the list. So how many things had to be fixed!? Was it a smooth handover? As it was a L52 you got, it would make it for a balance to the other L52 horror story!
Would you consider worth it for people with min knowledge to even hire a independent professional to review the boat (like when you buy used)? Or if you trust your broker and work out a list as exhaustive as possible this would be enough ?
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Old 28-04-2017, 22:42   #178
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

If the boat is on the hard I would add to John's list to check the antifouling. When I first dived on mine it had 3cm of barnacle growth on the bottom of both keels which had not been antifouled. Other problems I found on my 450s where external window sealant popping out, deck light didn't work, saloon ceiling falling down around the mast support, one auto bilge pump not working. I looked under the mast support step behind the saloon seating and the bolts holding the mast pillar step in place were only finger tight. One annoying feature was the fitment of electronics, the V50 vhf radio at the navigation station and the autopilot control panel at the helm were both crooked. Several of the screws holding the 230VAC power points were sheared off on fitting and therefor missing.
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Old 29-04-2017, 18:29   #179
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Re: Just signed on a new 450s!

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I understand why you are making theses changes, but it is a decision that will come back and bite you later.

If this is an ascetic thing remember you sit on your boat looking at others, not the other way round.

The rear area behind the coach roof still gets shaded by the boom usually not a lot but enough to drop the output by 20 or 30 amps at times. The area you are going to use will have more shading from boom, mast and bimini. With only 50% to start with and losing more due to shade, you will be running your generator a lot more, or switching of a lot of stuff.

See what Steve 450 has to say he used to have flexible panels only and a couple over the davits prior to adding the 2 kW at the back.

In the end we all do what we have to live in peace, just get it in writing that it is what the good lady wants and will not complain how much it costs to fix later on.

In the past 3 years I have met a total of zero people who wished they had less solar power generation, they always want more.

Good luck with whatever you decide.


I agree with Paul. Not only would a solar setup above the davits avoid shading of the panels from the boom, it will also increase the shade on the back of your boat! A few days in the tropical sun and you'll be begging for the shade the solar provides; no to mention all that wonderful free power!

Paul was kind enough to share his experiences with me prior to installing our 1.3 kW system above our davits on our much smaller Lagoon 380. For our smaller boat, we now have all the power we need and never have to run the engines. Plus, the munch needed shade we alway wanted. Thanks Paul for all the advice.

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Old 29-04-2017, 20:32   #180
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Just signed on a new 450s!

Dave. Your buying a new Lagoon and it will come with an initial first year warranty covering everything for both parts and labour. Your Lagoon agent should be taking well care of these items for you and Im sure by now you've worked out and agreed how this period will be managed. Be sure to establish a good working relationship with them and their Technical/Marine Manager (also the sales guy).

A number of issues have been raised above. Oddly we had none of these with our new 2014 450 but we had others. Im not sure there is value in giving another dump of these here, suffice to say that spending as much time on your new 450 as possible, better to be living on it, and operating all the systems will bring out the gremlins. I would recommend that you maintain a record of all anomalies, actions required/agreed, open/closed and emailing this to your agent's Technical Manager on a weekly or bi-monthly basis to keep it straight, professional and on their radar screen. I would say that the first 2-3 years of owning your Lagoon and living on it will bring out a majority of the issues. Its seems to improve after this - at least it has in our case it has. After your first year Lagoon warranty, you have the component warranties ie Yanmar, Onan, etc these can be another 2-3 yrs, where terms vary. Be sure to complete and register any warranty forms.

Installing your solar array above the davits, in line with the cockpit roof is indeed the best place for it, as mentioned above. Don't skimp here, squeeze as many watts as you can cram into this area!

We've put over 25k nm on our 450 now and she's been great. Emerald requires maintenance and its regular (let' see...this weekend I need to replace the steering cables and clear a blockage in the outboard's cooling system). Dont get lack luster and think you have a Toyota. Far from it. She's going to give you a world of pleasure but she needs TLC as any boat does. Be prepared to be the chief engineer as well as the skipper (and cook, dishwasher, swab....).

Enjoy this magnificent change in your life.
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