400: European Boat - Propane Tank Question

[Captn_Black]

Added to that, this 6kg bottle was all they were able to sell me during lockdown, I plan to switch it up for a 12.5kg soon, further reducing my installation options. The bottles here in Cape Verde are good for my purpose I decided, because they take a camping gas regulator, which I can easily replace anywhere in the world, and of course it is also more likely that I can get the bottle refilled.

[Captn_Black]

I have also been thinking about one of these LPG detectors- https://www.amazon.com/Detector-Sens.../dp/B0744MG4KX
I feel that is an acceptable amount of risk mitigation for my set up.

[johnn33]

Perhaps a hand held gas sniffer to go around the bilge?
John

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by johnn33

Perhaps a hand held gas sniffer to go around the bilge?
John

Would be great. While technically we are not poor, she is a 30 year old steel ship, that wasn't previously used for international cruising. The amount of things that would would be useful and "only" cost $20-30 soon becomes a small fortune, so we have to prioritise. So for now I use my own nose

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Brewgyver

As somebody else in this thread pointed out, the EU seems to be very lax in their handling of LPG installations. I know that in the U.S. and Canada, such regulators would not be approved for marine installation, ot indeed for any permanent installation. Only threaded or flare connection is allowed.

#I wouldn't say lax, just different. Here for example is a propane regulator attached directly to the cylinder, you will notice the barb fitting for the flexible hose. The Butane equivalent is a different thread and nut so they can't be mixed up.

Captn B, personally I am not keen on armoured hoses because you can't see the condition of the hose inside. The standard UK orange flexible hose is date stamped and much easier to inspect. The flexible hose at the back of the cooker will come with ferrules to fit the cooker and pipe.

A gas alarm should be a high priority, but that one is for sale on Thailand. You might be better of buying one from the UK that at least has some sort of CE rating. SoCal have a useful site: https://www.socal.co.uk/p/4207/marin...-16129-annex-m

Bulkhead fittings if you need one:

https://gasproducts.co.uk/caravan-ma...-fittings.html

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Captn B, personally I am not keen on armoured hoses because you can't see the condition of the hose inside. The standard UK orange flexible hose is date stamped and much easier to inspect. The flexible hose at the back of the cooker will come with ferrules to fit the cooker and pipe.

Yea, I had heard the same. I'm probably going to do that and remove the shut off valve next time I service the system, which is planned for next year. Things can be improved, but I am going to stick with the bronze hose barb bulkhead fittings, as I don't trust grommets to last on a steel boat - rust could develop inside and eventually damage the grommet and the pipe.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Pete7

#
A gas alarm should be a high priority, but that one is for sale on Thailand. You might be better of buying one from the UK that at least has some sort of CE rating.

Yea, I meant "this kind of thing". I welcome suggestions about which work best for the money. I have to ship in internationally anyway as I am a liveaboard.

Although it is generally my experience that US suppliers do not ship for economical rates internationally, if they do so at all.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Captn_Black

Although it is generally my experience that US suppliers do not ship for economical rates internationally, if they do so at all.

Sounds like you need a small free country that is open for business. One to the North of you has or is about to reach that status. Pop home sometime.

You have a water heater on Chineel don't you? That implies a T junction in the copper pipe, let alone a caravan water heater on a yacht . There will be lots more sucking on teeth along shortly.

Pete

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Pete7

You have a water heater on Chineel don't you? That implies a T junction in the copper pipe, let alone a caravan water heater on a yacht . There will be lots more sucking on teeth along shortly.

Pete

Nope! One of the first things I removed when I bought her. I'm not some landlubber that needs a hot shower. :P
Although that said I do plan to build a sump in the heads so I can have a shower there when we are in colder climes, probably just with a simple reservoir on the coachroof that can be warmed by the sun or have hot water added. I could survive without it, but I now the gf would prefer it.

And "Pop Home"? I have three nationalities but I live on my ship. Which home do you refer to? :P

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Sounds like you need a small free country that is open for business. One to the North of you has or is about to reach that status. Pop home sometime.

You have a water heater on Chineel don't you? That implies a T junction in the copper pipe, let alone a caravan water heater on a yacht . There will be lots more sucking on teeth along shortly.

Pete

Wait... Are you that guy that was berthed down the pontoon from me when I bought her? Hi, if so!
There have been numerous improvements

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Pete7

Sounds like you need a small free country that is open for business.
Pete

Nah, Cape Verde is opening next month, and I see no problems with making a crossing by November.
Another thing I changed right after buying was the engine displays on that side - so much wire running through the engine compartment was a bad idea imo. I am in the process of rewiring everything tbh. Literally every job the guys I brought it from did was substandard. But we are slowly getting there.

Edit - Rewired the important/most used things, proper negative and positive busbars before the switchboard, stuff like that.

[Brewgyver]

Originally Posted by Captn_Black

"Gauge", I meant, but I feel that any benefit from installing one is lost by adding something else that can break :P
Realise that you are joking, but seriously - gas safety is on my mind, and the way I do things is no different to how some other cruiser do (not that that is a reason in and of itself). If the gas is going to leak I would rather it do it outside. I keep an eye on all parts of the system including the regulator and replace anything that looks dodgy. And it sounds like you are the kind of person that understands that a gas leak would be unlikely to reach explosive air/gas ratios outside.

Yes, I do know that it would be very unlikely to reach LEL in an open cockpit. If you have an enclosure, of course, then it's no longer open.

A pressure gauge is one of the required components in the ABYC standards. It's used for leak testing, it can't tell you how much fuel is left in the cylinder. And as the cylinder is supposed to be either in a locker or rigidly mounted, the risk of breakage is pretty small.

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by Brewgyver

Yes, I do know that it would be very unlikely to reach LEL in an open cockpit. If you have an enclosure, of course, then it's no longer open.

A pressure gauge is one of the required components in the ABYC standards. It's used for leak testing, it can't tell you how much fuel is left in the cylinder. And as the cylinder is supposed to be either in a locker or rigidly mounted, the risk of breakage is pretty small.

I could potentially install inline on the system, on an interior bulkhead. Assuming the gauge is of good quality I don't think there would be any more risk than I currently have with the bulkhead fittings.

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by Brewgyver

First, bulkhead fittings are not allowed, second, hose clamps are NEVER allowed in ANY part of a marine LPG system.

While I agree with the sentiment, In the US and Canada they ARE allowed as their are absolutely no legal requirements for propane installations on pleasurecraft.

The ABYC Standards are however much more rigorous than Euro requirements.

[Brewgyver]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

While I agree with the sentiment, In the US and Canada they ARE allowed as their are absolutely no legal requirements for propane installations on pleasurecraft.

The ABYC Standards are however much more rigorous than Euro requirements.

Yes, I believe I had mentioned in another post that the legal ABYC, USCG, etc., requirements didn't apply to (non-commercial) pleasure craft, but was explaining the standards in terms of best practice for a safe installation. The discussion was proceeding from that standpoint, and I was attempting to explain WHY such standards ARE best practice.

As an example, the existing locker installed in my boat by the PO was located in a stern locker. It had a proper drain, vapor tight grommet and gasketed lid, but the lid attached with screws. Upon researching I found that the ABYC standard required being able to open the lid without tools. This made sense to me, because if I had a leak I would want to close the cylinder valve as quickly as possible, so I added hinges and a latch.