450: Engine throttle and Rudder joystick at nav station

[FCourtois]

I will acquire a L450 in the next coming year (new or 2 /3 years) to navigate in Mediterranean.

I am questioning about Engine throttle and rudder joystick at Nav station.

Since these options are expensive on a new boat, are these options worth ?
In which circumstances these can they be used ?

Thanks in advance.

[hefestus]

I find the joystick very useful specialty in coastal Med with lot of traffic. You temp. correct the course (I'm 98% on AP) for some sudden obstacles, as fishing boats, flotillas ... while you are in saloon, cooking, socializing or hiding from the sun...
Throttle is useless. If you are motoring (which you will do in Med a lot ) and you have situation that need to alter the speed, you will probably need to run to the helm.

[DavefromNZ]

I wouldn't bother with the joystick. The reason is I find it very unreliable. I.e. Sometimes the button does not work and take over control when pressed. Usually that is within seconds to dodge a crayfish pot buoy or log. I fitted the raymarine remote and an E7D chart plotter inside and now spend most of the trip inside socializing and keeping out of the weather, with full steerage control.

[Emerald Sea]

Feedback from our Lagoon service agent is that the Ultraflex electronic throttle is problematic and unreliable and when it goes down its of course the most Inopportune time ie negotiating around your marina. Specifically its the actuators. We have one on our new L450 but thinking now about putting a manual one in place. I have however been advised that later model Lagoons are upgraded with the Mark II, as I have, and the known problems fixed.....I'm about to find out.

[Freedom52]

Electronic throttles: not fixed on the 52 with Micro Commander servo units. Failure to engage in forward on the Stbd drive has been the cause of several near misses. Lack of full engagement caused a cone clutch failure in less than 400 hours of TT.
Joystick: there is a Raymarine auto pilot remote that does the same thing anywhere on the boat.
Sailing and mastering the boat: done from the flybridge all the time, only watches performed down below. This is not a motor yacht and these are not set up with a functional wheelhouse style station, and besides, the sails are all controlled above. Even the emergency main sheet release has been eliminated below.

[hefestus]

Originally Posted by Freedom52

Joystick: there is a Raymarine auto pilot remote that does the same thing anywhere on the boat.

True, I was referring to AP joystick!

[dougdaniel]

Originally Posted by Emerald Sea

Feedback from our Lagoon service agent is that the Ultraflex electronic throttle is problematic and unreliable and when it goes down its of course the most Inopportune time ie negotiating around your marina. Specifically its the actuators. We have one on our new L450 but thinking now about putting a manual one in place. I have however been advised that later model Lagoons are upgraded with the Mark II, as I have, and the known problems fixed.....I'm about to find out.

What did you find out?

Are the remote throttles problematic?

Thanks ;-)

[Emerald Sea]

Doug
Ive been using my L450 with the Ultraflex quite a lot between sailing, and of course docking manouvers since March. When the boat was delivered the first UF Shifter fault was that the motor was still engaged when the shifter was in neutral. This was repaired onsite (linkage settings) and the following week another fault occurred: when shifter first engaged the engine would not engage - it needed the next notch up to engage - this was not a linkage issue. The agent then had the complete shifter replaced - this was done last week, so not a lot of history yet on this replacement. I have however kept the slight faulty one in my possession as this is mission critical equipment and I want the spare until I have confidence that this new one works correctly. An argument developed but possession is 9/10ths the law!

I have ordered a spare UF PowerA Actuator. While I have not had any issues yet with the actuators I felt I needed to have one available (even though I have a 2 yr warranty).

I have not done a lot of cockpit steering with the Raymarine AP shifter and throttles and to be honest I dont expect that I will. The method that I sail, the place to manage, steer and operate your boat is the at the helm station, not inside enjoying tea when sailing. However I like the equipment redundancy it offers.

The 450 is a cruising boat and due to its exposed helm position will never be a true bluewater craft. Having said that, we intend to take it across oceans and no double it will see weather and you will find me at the helm and not indoors when the winds howl. Im settled with this compromise - along with oilers and goggles!

Steve
S/V Emerald Sea

[Capt Phil]

As we add more and more complexity and systems to the marine environment, we can expect more and more electronic, systems and operator error issues to crop up. Having the latest and greatest gizmo will not mean much if it crashes or develops reliability problems according to Murphy's Law which remains alive and well. If you are a committed techy who thrives on adding more complexity to a sport and lifestyle that is aimed at simplifying ones existence, good on you. But for those of us who are trying to take off from the thundering herd, it doesn't do us much good. Cheers, Phil

[DavefromNZ]

Hi Steve,

I have been in some reasonable seas which break over the bows and I think compared to nearly all keel boats and yachts without fly bridges the L450 is extremely dry with only the exceptional spray. With the Bimini it is a good shelter.

However I have the raymarine remote in the saloon. In any weather or at night I am inside as it is warm, comfortable, sociable and I have full instrumentation. We have AIS and radar so why operate on the flybridge as it only adds to fatigue at night?

Cheers
Dave


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[Emerald Sea]

Dave. I'll work on that. Thanks for your note.


Emerald Sea
Lagoon 450/304

[DavefromNZ]

PS I found in rough weather that an "artificial horizon" at the nav station gave me and the crew confidence and felt less sea sick. I use my ipad and the best app I could find was "Flight Instruments" by BBFlight.

We found that the L450 mostly rolls only 10 deg with the odd 20 deg. However pitch in a bit of a sea is plus and minus 10 deg. Basically everyone feels nauseous and some sick the first few days out 😬


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[downunder]

Two L440's I am aware of cyurrently in the Med have moved modified their throttle controls from the nav station and mounted them near the transom. perfect for mooring, particually med mooring.

[Jim Cate]

For some pithy observations on these systems, see Richard Spindler's comments in Changes in Latitudes, Aug 2014 edition of Latitude 38.

AS for me, I wouldn't have one on board. Too many chances for an awkward and expensive ** when the electronics have a glitch.

Jim

[coldar1]

Following the lead of L440 "Dominos", We have removed our saloon throttle and gear shifts to a pedestal we had fabricated and I installed just near the port aft engine hatch, and it has made berthing stern-too an absolute breeze. I have never used the joystick in the saloon, but have left it there. We also added a anchor control switch on the pedestal, so we can drop the anchor, start backing -in, and lay out just enough cable to hold the boat, letting more out as we need as we close the quay. It has been amazingly simple and I'd highly recommend anyone with a cat, even if not a Lagoon, to consider the mod. I can manage the throttles, the anchor, and the port aft stern line all from the one spot. See the photo in earlier Downunder post. That's our boat pictured.