450: Electrical overhaul notes

[rspott]

This is nice. I am considering a second 240VAC-50Hz inverter for the AirCon units.

I try not to have so many selector switches so non-technical people can just get onboard and go without fear of doing something wrong. (idiot resistant.. then they just create better idiots!)

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by rspott

This is nice. I am considering a second 240VAC-50Hz inverter for the AirCon units.

I try not to have so many selector switches so non-technical people can just get onboard and go without fear of doing something wrong. (idiot resistant.. then they just create better idiots!)

We all need to go that route at first... so did we and we still have a Quattro that switches between shore power and genset automatically. But over the years we found that doing so does not make it easier to understand, nor more reliable. It also costs extra. So we came full circle back to the old shore-gen switch approach.

For the selection of power source for each group of breakers I think it doesn’t get easier to follow than that. Consider an inverter/charger breaking down: how to overcome that? What needs to be done to get things working and how much knowledge is required. Turning a switch to use the other unit is much easier than rewiring circuits

For optimal effect this diagram is screaming for a custom panel with color coded groups and flow of power visualized. Exactly what we plan to do

[B73C]

I have a question...

"a custom hot water circulator..."

Can you elaborate on this?

We also have an L450F owner's version and have been filling a 10L bucket to recycle the cold fresh water in our shower until it gets warm.

I had a recirculator in my house that involved pushing water from the hot feed line back into the cold feed line (both pressurized) until a certain temperature was met. I had this on a timer so it only ran just before we were likely to need it. Is this what you've done?

Thanks.

[dutch-barge]

just a quick note. you have 12.2 KWH. not 122KWH. ( amphr * voltage). 960 *12.8. = 12.2 Kwh

Since you have the Gerbo, with more connections than the Venus, are you going to hook up your bilge pumps to it, so they will warn you when the turn on?

[AndrewA2]

Curious why your MPPT's are so large capacity wise (or maybe they are sized accordingly and i am missing something) ?

[dutch-barge]

AndrewA2

it is all about the math.
mppt's lets walk through them
12 V system IF it was 24V there would be 1/2 the number of MPPt's

top 135/35 connected to 2* 260 = 520 Watt @12.8 V = 40 amp. so that MPPt will always give a max of 35*12.8 = 448 watt ( IF the battery was 24V. you could have connected 960 watt

2nd from top 150/70. max output is 70*12.8. so you can hook up 896 watt ( currently only 450)

3rd and 4th are both also 150/70 so again good for a max output of 896. and both have 900 watt hangin on them

having MORE solar panels than the max input V and max input A is NOT going to damage the Victron MPPT's. By over sizing the panels a bit, it makes sure you get the max output, even with some shading or clouds weather.

I have the same kind of set up on one of the two I have I have one 110/30 on a 24V bank. so the max output is +/- 750 watt for a 1040 watt set of panels. ..

[AndrewA2]

Originally Posted by dutch-barge

AndrewA2

it is all about the math.
mppt's lets walk through them
12 V system IF it was 24V there would be 1/2 the number of MPPt's

top 135/35 connected to 2* 260 = 520 Watt @12.8 V = 40 amp. so that MPPt will always give a max of 35*12.8 = 448 watt ( IF the battery was 24V. you could have connected 960 watt

2nd from top 150/70. max output is 70*12.8. so you can hook up 896 watt ( currently only 450)

3rd and 4th are both also 150/70 so again good for a max output of 896. and both have 900 watt hangin on them

having MORE solar panels than the max input V and max input A is NOT going to damage the Victron MPPT's. By over sizing the panels a bit, it makes sure you get the max output, even with some shading or clouds weather.

I have the same kind of set up on one of the two I have I have one 110/30 on a 24V bank. so the max output is +/- 750 watt for a 1040 watt set of panels. ..

Im not following this what you are saying.
Reading the diagram:
Top MPPT : 150/35 is connected to 2 panels @ 260w, 38.3v, 9.09a each
2nd MPPT : 150/70 is connected to 1 panel @ 450w, 49.7v, 11.48a each
3rd MPPT : 150/70 is connected to 2 panels @ 450w, 49.7v, 11.48a each
4th MPPT : 150/70 is connected to 2 panels @ 450w, 49.7v, 11.48a each

To me that reads that each MPPT is way over spec'd for the panels attached. Like you could have half the MPPTs for the same panels... if i understand correctly....

Or are you saying that as this is a 12v not 24v system the numbers double?

[dutch-barge]

the system is 12 V.

3nd MPPT : 150/70 is connected to 2 panels @ 450w, 49.7v, 11.48a each
the MPPT says max out put is 70 amps. so the max amount of panels connected to this MPPT is 70 * 12.8 V = 896 Watt ( providing the combined inout voltage is below 150V)

If this were a 24 V system the MPPT would be still limited to 70 amps. BUT 70 amps at 24V. would mean 1792 Watt of solar panels. ( 2000Watt)

a 48 watt system would mean 4000 watt

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload...150-100-EN.pdf

[AndrewA2]

Originally Posted by dutch-barge

the system is 12 V.

3nd MPPT : 150/70 is connected to 2 panels @ 450w, 49.7v, 11.48a each
the MPPT says max out put is 70 amps. so the max amount of panels connected to this MPPT is 70 * 12.8 V = 896 Watt ( providing the combined inout voltage is below 150V)

If this were a 24 V system the MPPT would be still limited to 70 amps. BUT 70 amps at 24V. would mean 1792 Watt of solar panels. ( 2000Watt)

a 48 watt system would mean 4000 watt

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload...150-100-EN.pdf

AHhh NOW i got it. Thanks for helping !!!

[dutch-barge]

the savings on the # of MPPT's and the DC cabling made me change our last boat from 12 to 24V
even after buying new 24 V pumps it was cheaper
For the equipment which is always 12V. ( VHF etc) I use a 24-12 Dc-DC one for each instrument Victron has these little 60 watt Dc-Dc convertors under $15/ piece

[rspott]

Originally Posted by dutch-barge

just a quick note. you have 12.2 KWH. not 122KWH. ( amphr * voltage). 960 *12.8. = 12.2 Kwh

Since you have the Gerbo, with more connections than the Venus, are you going to hook up your bilge pumps to it, so they will warn you when the turn on?

I try not to overcomplicate the bilge pumps.
The primary pumps have sensors built into them and run when needed. This also sets off an audible alarm.
The secondary pumps are on a switch.
The tertiary are manual pumps!

[rspott]

Originally Posted by dutch-barge

the savings on the # of MPPT's and the DC cabling made me change our last boat from 12 to 24V
even after buying new 24 V pumps it was cheaper
For the equipment which is always 12V. ( VHF etc) I use a 24-12 Dc-DC one for each instrument Victron has these little 60 watt Dc-Dc convertors under $15/ piece

The cost of going to 24VDC was in the 6 electric winches and the 12VDC anchor windlass. At up to 2000W draw each that was going to be pretty expensive to covert. I supposed I could have a secondary set of 12VDC batteries charged from the house batteries but then I just get more and more involved down a crazy rabbit hole.

[rspott]

Originally Posted by AndrewA2

AHhh NOW i got it. Thanks for helping !!!

Oh good, I am glad this was worked out.

Yes, at 12VDC the Victron MPPT cannot handle more than 1000W of power so I had to go with more MPPTs.

I don't mind the cost here as I can move things around should something fail in the field.

On our last boat the Victron MPPT went a little crazy on us and had to be replaced under warranty. We were in El Salvador so there was a bit of a challenge. Luckily for me I travel often for work so I was able to put the charger on my carry-on luggage and exchange it in the US.

[dutch-barge]

One thing I have to get off my chest..the warranty and service of Victron is great.

[rspott]

Originally Posted by B73C

I have a question...

"a custom hot water circulator..."

Can you elaborate on this?

We also have an L450F owner's version and have been filling a 10L bucket to recycle the cold fresh water in our shower until it gets warm.

I had a recirculator in my house that involved pushing water from the hot feed line back into the cold feed line (both pressurized) until a certain temperature was met. I had this on a timer so it only ran just before we were likely to need it. Is this what you've done?

Thanks.

Please be gentle on the wiring diagrams as I am doing this from memory on a plane!

PDF is here? https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...1&d=1593723555