450: Bilge Alarms

[Krabimike]

Originally Posted by Krabimike

Everything is correct except on my 450S it does not have any type of alarm and I am being told by my dealer that lagoon has stopped putting on alarms

I stand corrected. Lagoon did not install on this model of lagoon per my dealer service department.

Originally Posted by Pete7

Agreed, we have a small auto bilge pump that pumps water into the cockpit well at wellington boot height. Hopefully even dozy crew late a night might react if they see water being pumped out on to their feet or into their boots.

Pete

[Emerald Sea]

Originally Posted by Krabimike

At this point both of my float switches which are inside the pumps have failed one in each haul. I am asking the dealer to give me a price when they install the new pumps as to add to alarms with lights at the Helm. I am also looking at ultra saftey floats and alarms with a better pumps. But pretty expensive. But how much is it worth not to craw out of bed to take a piss and step on floating floor boards and lose my water maker pumps. Etc. Etc. Mine is a never ending unremarkable experience with my lagoon and the representation that was given me. But I do love my life on my boat.

Hi Mike. Im a little alarmed (no pun here) that Lagoon haven't remained with the bilge alarms and have taken the rocker switches from the helm. If I don't hear my alarms go off occasionally, Im looking under the floor boards - its a reassuring sound! And employing a Rule pump with combined pump and integrated float switch - sounds like trouble in the making. As most things on owners boats, you will make your improvements, and deciding on UltraSafe float switches with alarms will provide you with a very reliable and safe solution, albeit a bit expensive. I installed these on our 450 after about 6 months of owning the boat and sleep just that much better for it.

TEF-GEL - Ultra safety systems - Home page

Success

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I think you are on the right track with Ultra switches, well worth the money, good quality sometimes cost more, but lasts for years

I thought he had discussed Ultra switches on his pumps, that is why I said the above

[Emerald Sea]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I thought he had discussed Ultra switches on his pumps, that is why I said the above

Relax man! Just reinforcing a good idea.

[Krabimike]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

good chance the float switch is not broken, but rather stuck. The problem in the 380 is that they are down at the bottom of the 'keel' and almost impossible to get unless you have ape like arms. I keep a wire coat hanger that I use sort of as a snake to do things and used this to pull push the float.

Also, while on our first shakedown cruise, I went below cause I was hearing this beeping, which I realized was the bilge. Freaking out, I went looking and what was going on was leftover anti freeze was sloshing around in the bilge. Somehow the float got stuck in the on position even though the water at that point was pretty much out. We were in about 4' seas. I was able to push the float valve down after draining the bilge. So the factory location of the pump is right at the very bottom of the bilge.

Having a high water alarm would be good, afaik the alarm i have is just for when the bilge automatically goes on.

There is another thread going on right now about crash pumps in case of a need to really evacuate lots of water. It might be worthwhile to read that if you are going cruising.

There are a couple people on the lagoon threads who have great experience with Lagoon boats and are usually correct in their assessment of issues, Paul, Tim, and Scottster come to mind.

Finally, there is a lagoon forum on yahoo groups, which also has lots of good info, not as nearly as large as the general cruisersforum here, but larger than the specific lagoon forum here.

I like my lagoon. Just frustrated as to why they have choose the 450S as to not install alarms. (especially now that I have had both float switches in my hauls fail) My dealer told me it was because of customer complaints. But I am not hearing that aboard. Yes you are correct all of Paul, Tim, Scott, and Steve on Emerald Sea have been very helpful and saved me many mistakes on my learning curve.
I also tried to log unto the yahoo lagoon site but have not had any luck getting logged on. I would be very interested to know if other new 450S or any other lagoon boats are being sold without bilge alarm and lights at the Helm showing the pump is activated.

[PaulinOz]

"lights at the Helm showing the pump is activated"

The Automatic pumps and bridge alarm did not have lights on my L450 (2013).

I added the lights. After the audible alarm went off when offshore and I had no idea what it was. (The alarm device was mounted in the roof space between bridge deck and saloon). Checked bilges both dry, could not here the Rule pump running at time over the alarm noise. Started turning off and on electrical systems and then alarm stopped.( Joyfull peace and quiet)

That was later proved to be after approx 20 mins of making noise the audible alarm device had failed (no more noise). At anchor that night could smell plastic getting hot, this proved to be Rule pump which had now been powered up in the bilge dry for over 6 hours, going into melt down. So in one short day the level alarm (BE9006) failed and stayed switched on. The noise maker quit making noise after 20 minutes and then Rule pump cooked itself. (bad things always happen in threes)

As to the systems reliability in 2 1/2 years. I have so far replaced 1 x rule pump and 3 x Whale BE9006 electronic (fully sealed no moving parts) level switches. The only work they had done was pump out the occasional bucket of water tossed into the bilge to test them.

[jbinbi]

Mimics my experience of hearing an alarm and not knowing what it was. 6 people in the cockpit, had to go inside to check the chart, heard this beeping, no clue as to what it was. realized it was bilge pump, float valve stuck up from antifreeze sloshing.

Wiring up an indicator to the helm is brilliant. Paul, where did you lead the wires from, the indicator on the panel in the salon, or from the actual pump itself. Snaking 2 wires from the pumps is going to be a pita, from the main switch panel should be easy, just need to figure out the 2 way switch and lamp on it.

[PaulinOz]

My L450(2013) already had manual on/off switches for the Automatic bilge pumps wired up at the fly bridge.

The audible alarms are wired off of the on/off switch, so I added visual LED indicators across the audible Alarm devices.

[meirriba]

I sail L400 and to the best of my knowledge, the following is standard on all L400 & L450, possibly all Lagoons.

1. There are no alarms for the bilge pumps.
2. There are electronic water sensors in the bilges to activate pumps.
3. There are manual activation switches on the electric panel.

The alarm is apparently not mandatory under EC standards.

I have added floater switches to activate the pumps and alarms that work whether the pumps started automatically or manually.

This created new problem with the A/C condensation water that was led by Lagoon into the bilges. Now, whenever the water from the A/C is being removed by the bilge pump, the bilge alarm goes off... next step was to install extra collection boxes (in both hulls) for the condensation water with small pumps that take this water out of the boat without involving the bilges.

[PaulinOz]

All Lagoons are not the same as well as all Lagoon models are not the same overtime.

Quote
"I sail L400 and to the best of my knowledge, the following is standard on all L400 & L450, possibly all Lagoons.
1. There are no alarms for the bilge pumps. "

As I have stated twice in this thread my L450 came from the factory Standard with Bilge alarms fitted to the Bilge Pumps that are operated by the electronic level switches in the bilge and over ride switches up at the fly bridge.

It also came with another set of bilge pumps (totally independent of the automatic ones) electric Whale Gulpers that are manual switched on and of from the Electric control panel in the salon.
Plus the manual hand operated pumps.

It just accord to me there is no way to have both the starboard and port Whale Gulper pumps running at the same time. (will have a look at that)

Merry Christmas, need to go and wrap the Admirals Xmas present before she gets up.

[meirriba]

Originally Posted by PaulinOz

All Lagoons are not the same as well as all Lagoon models are not the same overtime.

Quote
"I sail L400 and to the best of my knowledge, the following is standard on all L400 & L450, possibly all Lagoons.
1. There are no alarms for the bilge pumps. "

As I have stated twice in this thread my L450 came from the factory Standard with Bilge alarms fitted to the Bilge Pumps that are operated by the electronic level switches in the bilge and over ride switches up at the fly bridge.

It also came with another set of bilge pumps (totally independent of the automatic ones) electric Whale Gulpers that are manual switched on and of from the Electric control panel in the salon.
Plus the manual hand operated pumps.

It just accord to me there is no way to have both the starboard and port Whale Gulper pumps running at the same time. (will have a look at that)

Merry Christmas, need to go and wrap the Admirals Xmas present before she gets up.

Apologies. It may be that my statement was outdated. This was certainly the status in 2011 but a long time passed since and Lagoon may have changed its policies.
My apologies again and merry Christmas to all.

[Krabimike]

This is what have have decided to do.
Add to both hauls ultra saftey systems Sr float switches with ultra saftey systems high water alarms. Then add to reddit led lights at my control panel as this is where I seem to check most often. If the pumps are operating the lights will show active. If they are running a lot I hope to take notice.. thanks for the advice and help!
Interesting I met the creator of ultra saftey systems he is a little cranky but a gentleman at heart. He also is the inventor of tel-gel. But has been helpful with wire diagrams and making sure it is a safe and sound system.

[Rickthesailor]

Hi,

Has anyone tried the Johnson bilge pumps (SPX Johnson Pump for Boatbuilders, Pleasure, Commercial & Fishing boats)...

The automatic Rule pumps have been a royal pita since we started our passage from Malta to the Caribbean... they do not handle the water in the bilge moving around in rough seas, and are on and off constantly... and they finally just stayed on... we even completely got all the water out of the bilge and the pump still continued to run...

We have decided to scrap both of them and are looking for a replacement... we liked the feature on the Johnson pumps that delays the pump for 8 secs to accommodate sloshing in the bilge...

Regards, Rick

[Pascals Wager]

As mentioned previously the Auto Rule pumps now supplied in the 450S don't have float switches but an electronic switch. Of note, these switches are designed to detect the presence of water only. This is to comply with EU environmental laws I believe to prevent fuel/oil etc being pumped out. An alarm would at least tell you there is some other fluid in the bilge beyond just water. I will be installing them.

[Pascals Wager]

As mentioned previously the Auto Rule pumps now supplied in the 450S don't have float switches but an electronic switch. Of note, these switches are designed to detect the presence of water only. This is to comply with EU environmental laws I believe to prevent fuel/oil etc being pumped out. An alarm would at least tell you there is some other fluid in the bilge beyond just water. I will be installing them.