380 S2: Big decision time

[MountainKing]

Originally Posted by rabbi

Amen.

The 380 just needs a square settee design to modernize the looks and improve ergonomics (I can't lay down there).
And for cruisers some overhead storage in the galley and a freezer under the nav station.

The lack of a square settee is the biggest design concern keeping me from older cats in this size range. As I'm looking for a liveaboard boat, I want a place where I can just put my feet up and relax, even if the weather is uncooperative. With the rounded settees, the only choice is to sit at the table, which isn't a relaxing position to me.

I'm glad all the new boats seem to be going to a square settee design, where you can cuddle up in a corner of the sofa and put your feet up. I just wish they had started doing it a few years earlier so I would have more used options in my price range.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by MountainKing

The lack of a square settee is the biggest design concern keeping me from older cats in this size range. As I'm looking for a liveaboard boat, I want a place where I can just put my feet up and relax, even if the weather is uncooperative. With the rounded settees, the only choice is to sit at the table, which isn't a relaxing position to me.

I'm glad all the new boats seem to be going to a square settee design, where you can cuddle up in a corner of the sofa and put your feet up. I just wish they had started doing it a few years earlier so I would have more used options in my price range.

Boat designers have known for the last 50 years that straight seats are far more comfortable and flexible in their use than curved or rounded seating BUT curved seating takes less space and is visually nicer and more modern looking to the eye and marketing sells boats so everyone got what they got. Personally I wouldn't own a boat with round seating areas..

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by MountainKing

The lack of a square settee is the biggest design concern keeping me from older cats in this size range. As I'm looking for a liveaboard boat, I want a place where I can just put my feet up and relax, even if the weather is uncooperative. With the rounded settees, the only choice is to sit at the table, which isn't a relaxing position to me.

I'm glad all the new boats seem to be going to a square settee design, where you can cuddle up in a corner of the sofa and put your feet up. I just wish they had started doing it a few years earlier so I would have more used options in my price range.

For the difference in price between a good used L380 and a new L40 you could afford to pay for an awesome interior remodeling. Hell, even if you bought a brand new L380 you could cut out the whole saloon and custom remodel with genuine crocodile leather upholstery and gold plated fittings and still have spent less than the cost of a new L40.

[MountainKing]

Originally Posted by tuskie

For the difference in price between a good used L380 and a new L40 you could afford to pay for an awesome interior remodeling. Hell, even if you bought a brand new L380 you could cut out the whole saloon and custom remodel with genuine crocodile leather upholstery and gold plated fittings and still have spent less than the cost of a new L40.

Would you strongly recommend the crocodile over something like an alcantara? Is it waterproof?

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by MountainKing

Is it waterproof?

Of course! Otherwise crocs would fill with water, drown and sink.

[Catapault]

Originally Posted by Haywoods

Hi there and thanks for your reply

We have looked at the 450 fly bridge, but it isn't the right boat for us - for one reason alone.

Most of the time there will only be the two of us on the boat and we felt that the person at the helm would be isolated form the other person most of the time.

For that reason we wanted a boat with a layout similar to our 380 which has the helm position at a half way point ... good visability but still able to interact with the others "downstairs".

Cheers

Paul

We thought the same, and look at alternatives for a long time before coming back to it. I can say that it turns out to just not be true, with trivial work-arounds for the odd occasion it even might be a problem.

As a cruising couple, (currently in the med, heading west soon), we LOVE the Lagoon 450 as a full time live aboard boat. Only the two of us and 2 cats.

The fly-bridge when sailing is just brilliant. And when not (sailing), the rest of the boat is amazing. Don't miss the HUGE benefit that two (or more) can be up there during the day sail very comfortably.

I have to say the "fly bridge disconnect" issue is no where near as big an issue as we also thought it would be. Quite the opposite in fact.

Regards Mark. S/V Gumtrees. - L 450 F
Currently in Cyprus, starting up to head towards the Adriatic in a month or so.

[rom]

Originally Posted by Catapault

I have to say the "fly bridge disconnect" issue is no where near as big an issue as we also thought it would be. Quite the opposite in fact.

How much time do people spend on the fly bridge on a passage ? I mean for the purpose of steering the boat ?

It's hard to say, but for me that would sure be less than 5% of the time. I am going on the fly because want to, not so often because it is required.

I am on a short passage right now, in the saloon writing this, no one on the fly.

[CatNewBee]

I like more the sport bridge design....

For us two the 400S2 is just the right size, only a little odd is the helm position at port - compared to the other cats with a sport bridge at starbord....

It feels more like a car than like a boat. But this is an -non-issue. Like the low boom too, easy access to the main sail.

[robert sailor]

Fly bridge is great in places like the Med and Caribbean..I think they are the second best idea crossing oceans in any sort of weather.

[Catapault]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Fly bridge is great in places like the Med and Caribbean..I think they are the second best idea crossing oceans in any sort of weather.

They are not the best for crossing an ocean / long passage, but they arn't the worst either. Totaly manageable I feel.

And not like we all cross an ocean THAT often as a percentage of the cruising time.

Over the sports tops, we really like that we can both be up at the helm, very comfortably / stretched out, with the two cats (feline variety) as well. Even on overnight passages we've generally both been up there, with one dozing off on the seat, or down in the cockpit on the lounger. No issue communicating. Its nice for everyone to be able to look where we are going, rather than where we have been

I actually feel far safer on my flybridge in rough weather/ in a a swell than I did in the 400 we've sailed in similar conditions. (35+ knots, into the sea).

Everyone is biased towards what they have, for sure. But we were major naysayers against the flybridge, until we took one out, and now own one. Now we love it and don't want anything else (in a cat that is !)

Dosn't hurt that the rest of the boat is just brilliant of course..

Regards

Mark.
L450 F

[rabbi]

Humans are amazing at their capability of adjusting to different environments.
Many details that some folks consider a no-go are in fact things that many of us can adjust to if we want to.

We just love the cruising way of live, and the type of boat we have and it's design details are a secondary consideration. As long as we don't feel unsafe or cramped, or the boat looks like a dump side we are OK and have a great time.

For example we have lived for months on a small FP Mahe 36 and had a great time. A huge difference to a big house this boat was just big enough for coastal cruising with our small family.
If we had cat with a flybridge I'd be just as happy with it I guess.


But the flybridge is not on my wish list.
This is mostly because of the high boom & CE, and because of potential safety issues with the kids (the cockpit is out of sight if both of us are at the helm). This is easier with the helm at cockpit level.


But as said, if we happen to run into one why not. If we like the overall design of the boat then a FB is not a deal breaker, and I am sure we can adjust ourselfs and our habbits to make a FB design fit.

[Catapault]

Originally Posted by rabbi

Humans are amazing at their capability of adjusting to different environments.
Many details that some folks consider a no-go are in fact things that many of us can adjust to if we want to.

We just love the cruising way of live, and the type of boat we have and it's design details are a secondary consideration. As long as we don't feel unsafe or cramped, or the boat looks like a dump side we are OK and have a great time.

For example we have lived for months on a small FP Mahe 36 and had a great time. A huge difference to a big house this boat was just big enough for coastal cruising with our small family.
If we had cat with a flybridge I'd be just as happy with it I guess.


But the flybridge is not on my wish list.
This is mostly because of the high boom & CE, and because of potential safety issues with the kids (the cockpit is out of sight if both of us are at the helm). This is easier with the helm at cockpit level.


But as said, if we happen to run into one why not. If we like the overall design of the boat then a FB is not a deal breaker, and I am sure we can adjust ourselfs and our habbits to make a FB design fit.

I have to agree with this, and in many respects is what we did.

FB was listed as a negative (and for a while, a showstopper) when we were boat hunting. But after a while, the benefits of our chosen vessel model outweighed that negative, and we relented.

My comments really are, in hindshight, it was no where near as big of a negative as we thought before we had one, and has since turned into a mostly-positive outcome.

The only real downside is what its soon going to cost me to put the bimini over it we both want. (hardtop, large).

PS: Sail boom issues likely to go away when we fit a inboom-furling main, hopefully next year. Want it for different reasons, but not having sail-bag packing is just a bonus.

Love our 450 F.

Regards. Mark.

[django37]

Originally Posted by tuskie

I tend to agree with ROM but would be very interested to read Lars' (Careka) opinion. How did the new L39 and L42 models fair in the Catamaran Cup, compared with older Lagoon models?

I've not sailed a new L42 but have disappointing experience with the L39. The "new" L40 hasn't appeared in our country yet, but seems to be unfortunately just a minor rehash of the older L39. So it sure won't be approaching the performance of the old L380.

The 2017 CatamaransCup results are here. The Lagoon 500 was the fastest, 2 races had no finishers, very light winds. Most of the sailing was upwind. Boats with selftacking jibs did badly: L39, 42, 52 and the Nautitech. The 380 Cataki does not have squaretop main.

[rom]

Originally Posted by django37

The 2017 CatamaransCup results are here. The Lagoon 500 was the fastest, 2 races had no finishers, very light winds. Most of the sailing was upwind. Boats with selftacking jibs did badly: L39, 42, 52 and the Nautitech. The 380 Cataki does not have squaretop main.

The result somewhat makes sense to me for the lagoons & balis (sorry).
I haven't sailed the nautitech, but would have expected it to score better.
I did sail the bahia and I believe a proper one in good hands would kill every other boats there. Unless it doesn't point well upwind, that I can't remember.

Is that your L380 on the picture ? nice shot !

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by django37

The 2017 CatamaransCup results are here. The Lagoon 500 was the fastest, 2 races had no finishers, very light winds. Most of the sailing was upwind. Boats with selftacking jibs did badly: L39, 42, 52 and the Nautitech. The 380 Cataki does not have squaretop main.

Thanks Lars. Well done Havhunden.

This confirms what we expected; older model Lagoons outperforming newer models and the good old L380 (expertly sailed) punching way above its weight compared with its bigger brothers. Newer model Lagoons vying for last place against the Bali and Nautitech offerings.

It's also interesting that you mentioned that most of the sailing was upwind. Lagoon touts the new models with self tacking large jibs as being easier and better for going to windward. The race results show this to be BS.

I read with interest your advise regarding sail design for Lagoons on another thread, where you suggested that overlap between jib/genoa and main was required to get good airflow on the leeward side of the main. This counteracts the effect of airflow disturbance caused by the mast. Perhaps this, as well as the heavy weight and small sail area of the newer models accounts for the poor windward performance of the newer models? Perhaps replacing the self tacking jib with a genoa could improve the performance of these newer models, L39, L42 etc.? A friend with a Seawind 1250 has done this and is very happy with the results.