General Info: Advice for purchasing used Lagoon

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by Sailing Hanse37

Sorry to disappoint you: most Lagoons have glued bulkheads. And more important: the glued or tabbed makes no major difference, since the bulkheads are torn apart, so their strength is insufficient. I would never consider any lagoon, new or secondhand… putting so much money in a very risky investment does not sound right to me

Then don't. I am not one of the thousands of happy Lagoon owners who have traveled millions of miles without incident in these boats, I am very happy with my Fountaine Pajot. But I feel absolutely no need to pile on these completely bogus assertions about Lagoons. You have to ask yourself why, exactly, do you?

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by Sailing Hanse37

Sorry to disappoint you: most Lagoons have glued bulkheads. And more important: the glued or tabbed makes no major difference, since the bulkheads are torn apart, so their strength is insufficient. I would never consider any lagoon, new or secondhand… putting so much money in a very risky investment does not sound right to me

I don't know if most Lagoon have glued bulkheads or tabbed. I have only checked out a few dozen Lagoons in my life, but you sound like you have seen them all.

I am aware of two models that have bulkhead issues. Lagoon has done a shitty job there.
But I also know that of the few dozen boats I have checked out personally (380s, 400s, 410s) none had broken bulkheads. Cracked furniture glue yes, but certainly no bulkheads that were "torn apart".


No problem if you consider a Lagoon too risky for your taste. Just buy something else.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

Some, like Lagoon 380s, have more than 1,000 built in a design that has been sailing for 20 years.

On a side note: I don't think they ever reached 1000 units for the 380.
The most recent 380 I have visited was #866 built in Oct 2018 and they stopped making them a year later.
At that time they were building only 20 or so units per year. Obviously demand had shifted to much larger models due to focus on the charter market.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by rabbi

On a side note: I don't think they ever reached 1000 units for the 380.
The most recent 380 I have visited was #866 built in Oct 2018 and they stopped making them a year later.
At that time they were building only 20 or so units per year. Obviously demand had shifted to much larger models due to focus on the charter market.

I used a poorly sourced google reference, so your deduction is probably more accurate. Of course the point still stands

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

I used a poorly sourced google reference, so your deduction is probably more accurate. Of course the point still stands

No worries, your google reference just states what has been mentioned all over the internet for years. Lagoon sold well over one hundred units in some years so 1000 units seemed in reach - but then sales numbers dropped sharply around 2010.
The boxy Ikea-style condomaran took over especially in the smaller cats and larger boats were in demand for the charter market.

But yes, your point is certainly valid!

[Sailing Hanse37]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

Then don't. I am not one of the thousands of happy Lagoon owners who have traveled millions of miles without incident in these boats, I am very happy with my Fountaine Pajot. But I feel absolutely no need to pile on these completely bogus assertions about Lagoons. You have to ask yourself why, exactly, do you?

Just look on youtube to find the torn apart bulkheads… many of them…

[Sailing Hanse37]

Originally Posted by rabbi

I don't know if most Lagoon have glued bulkheads or tabbed. I have only checked out a few dozen Lagoons in my life, but you sound like you have seen them all.

I am aware of two models that have bulkhead issues. Lagoon has done a shitty job there.
But I also know that of the few dozen boats I have checked out personally (380s, 400s, 410s) none had broken bulkheads. Cracked furniture glue yes, but certainly no bulkheads that were "torn apart".


No problem if you consider a Lagoon too risky for your taste. Just buy something else.

Lagoon builds ALL of their catamarans with glued bulkheads ! It is simply their way of building and nothing wrong with that if you know what you are doing. And yes the problem of cracked or thorn apart bulkheads seems to concentrate on 2 models as of yet… I am sorry, but confidence is low in this brand… we were looking for a Lagoon to replace our monohull, but we decided to stick with the boat we have (which also has glued bulkhead btw) I don’t have anything in particular against glued bulkheads, but a big brand like Lagoon should be able to avoid building boats where bulkheads crack, are thorn or were glueing is not sufficient for reaching necessary strength. So, no i won’t buy a Lagoon anytime soon, not new and certainly not second hand

[Sailing Hanse37]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

Then don't. I am not one of the thousands of happy Lagoon owners who have traveled millions of miles without incident in these boats, I am very happy with my Fountaine Pajot. But I feel absolutely no need to pile on these completely bogus assertions about Lagoons. You have to ask yourself why, exactly, do you?

You travelled millions of miles with these boats ? Ok, i am going to try figure out how long it takes to sail 1 million of mile. At 10 knots average (which is absolutely above realistic average speed you will need 100.000 hours, so 4167 days of 24 hours, so 11,5 years of non stop sailing. But you did several millions of miles. May i kindly ask sir if you are above 100 years old ?

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by Sailing Hanse37

You travelled millions of miles with these boats ? Ok, i am going to try figure out how long it takes to sail 1 million of mile. At 10 knots average (which is absolutely above realistic average speed you will need 100.000 hours, so 4167 days of 24 hours, so 11,5 years of non stop sailing. But you did several millions of miles. May i kindly ask sir if you are above 100 years old ?

Go back and read redneckrobs post again, slowly and carefully.

[Sailing Hanse37]

Originally Posted by aqfishing

Go back and read redneckrobs post again, slowly and carefully.

When i read the post, i read an assumption about millions of miles without problems… strange assumption, how does this man now that ? What was HIS experience ? Maybe positive i guess. But it is much easier to state that ALL lagoons have glued bulkheads simply because it is their way of building, regardless the model or year of build. It is also much easier to say that lagoons calculation of strength of bulkheads was faulty on 2 models, resulting in cracked or thorn bulkheads. So it is a fair assumption that Lagoon doesn’t do these calculations but simply expect that bulkheads will be sufficiently strong, which may be true on smaller cats but not so on bigger ones…

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by Sailing Hanse37

When i read the post, i read an assumption about millions of miles without problems… strange assumption, how does this man now that ? What was HIS experience ? Maybe positive i guess. But it is much easier to state that ALL lagoons have glued bulkheads simply because it is their way of building, regardless the model or year of build. It is also much easier to say that lagoons calculation of strength of bulkheads was faulty on 2 models, resulting in cracked or thorn bulkheads. So it is a fair assumption that Lagoon doesn’t do these calculations but simply expect that bulkheads will be sufficiently strong, which may be true on smaller cats but not so on bigger ones…

…

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by Sailing Hanse37

When i read the post, i read an assumption about millions of miles without problems… strange assumption, how does this man now that ? What was HIS experience ? Maybe positive i guess. But it is much easier to state that ALL lagoons have glued bulkheads simply because it is their way of building, regardless the model or year of build. It is also much easier to say that lagoons calculation of strength of bulkheads was faulty on 2 models, resulting in cracked or thorn bulkheads. So it is a fair assumption that Lagoon doesn’t do these calculations but simply expect that bulkheads will be sufficiently strong, which may be true on smaller cats but not so on bigger ones…

It may be easier to say - but totally wrong.


I guess one photo of a cat with bulkheads glassed in place is enough to convince you that you are wrong:
1999 Lagoon 410

I have more, different models and different model years. Most recent one I have on file is a 2019 with glassed bulkheads.


Which 2 models do think have bulkhead strength calculations wrong? I am only aware of the 450. But since you know them all so please enlighten me!


BTW: It is likely true that Lagoon doesn't do strength calculations because that is the job of the design office - not the builder.


So please show us more of you wisdom!

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by Sailing Hanse37

You travelled millions of miles with these boats ? Ok, i am going to try figure out how long it takes to sail 1 million of mile. At 10 knots average (which is absolutely above realistic average speed you will need 100.000 hours, so 4167 days of 24 hours, so 11,5 years of non stop sailing. But you did several millions of miles. May i kindly ask sir if you are above 100 years old ?

I can't tell if you're trolling or your reading comprehension is at a 2nd grade level? Did you not grasp the part where I said I did NOT own a Lagoon? Do you not understand the concept that there are collectively thousands of Lagoon owners who have collectively sailed millions of miles.

Since my charitable view of humanity is that no adult could be that stupid, I am going to have to go with the fact that you're trolling. Why, exactly, do you feel the need to do that and what do you get out of it? I'm genuinely curious.