450: 450 Bulkhead issues - Report them please.

[rspott]

If you have a lagoon 450 we need YOUR help.

1. PLEASE watch this video: https://youtu.be/HhONZUGKZgk

2. Open the trim around your bulkheads. A video showing how to do this is here:
https://youtu.be/6fGnpkdnVDc

3. report what you see here: https://www.rspott.com/bulkhead

We will submit this information to Lagoon en masse. We want to use this data to help Lagoon help all of us.

Thank you for your time.

If you have issues with the web-form or want to make jokes at my expense please do so below. If you want to debate this issue you have to PM me and I'll give you my phone number. We can talk.

[ozsailer]

Can you advise of number of owners reporting broken or damaged bulheads to date (26 April 21.)



Ozsailer

[rspott]

Originally Posted by ozsailer

Can you advise of number of owners reporting broken or damaged bulheads to date (26 April 21.)



Ozsailer

Of course! When you submit a report you get a response.

[donradcliffe]

How much use has your boat had? How many years, how many oceans crossed?

[rspott]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

How much use has your boat had? How many years, how many oceans crossed?

We started a group on Facebook regarding this issue:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/902269000568556

Of the data I have collected, I have not yet seen a "good" bulkhead.

So I guess the answer is all types of use and all types of oceans crossed?

The boat is rated for CE A-D: https://yachtsinvest.com/faq/ce-yach...lassification/

The how and why of the past are not really that important here. The future how and why really is.

[donradcliffe]

The facebook group is a lot more enlightening, and I would encourage all 450 owners to join the group and inspect their bulkheads.

It appears that the main mast bulkhead on the L450 was underbuilt. It is a defect that is hidden under the trim and will not cause damage in the marina. However with 100s of boats out sailing oceans it is starting to show up too often to ignore.

It is repairable and the repaired boat will be better than new, but the repair involves removing a lot of cabinetry and $$. It would be easier and cheaper to solve on the production line, but that means the manufacturer would have to admit to the problem and retrofit all unsold inventory.

The OP is trying to start an organized program to address the issue, but is meeting resistance from the manufacturer and the current owners who have taken the head in the sand approach. I don't see the manufacturer as the solution--like defective airbags in cars--the manufacturer doesn't have the resources to fix the problem on their own.

[LeeV]

When we bought our 2012 at Christmas 2020, the broker told us all boats flex, which is why some things looked off kilter (door wouldn't close easily, shelves/wall joins not meeting...). It wasn't till I started reading online that I realized there are (or had been) issues - we saw what looked like epoxy smeared in places that didn't look original.


I joined the group discussing this but have not had the time (we don't live by the boat) to take trim apart.

[rspott]

Originally Posted by LeeV

When we bought our 2012 at Christmas 2020, the broker told us all boats flex, which is why some things looked off kilter (door wouldn't close easily, shelves/wall joins not meeting...). It wasn't till I started reading online that I realized there are (or had been) issues - we saw what looked like epoxy smeared in places that didn't look original.


I joined the group discussing this but have not had the time (we don't live by the boat) to take trim apart.

I had that same explanation in my head. These things move. My in-laws have a $1MM land-yacht and their furniture and cabinetry is just a little off too. The motorhome company hides the movement _VERY_ well.

Then I got a scotch in me and I just looked a little closer.

Then that night I jumped up in my underwear to take off the trim. (No, I did not film that action!) What was revealed made me a little ill.

If you have any way of doing this remote, it may be a good idea. I can only imagine the backup at the boat yard when Lagoon issues whatever fix they are working on.

If my video is too long or too American english let me know and I can re-film something more international/IKEA-instruction-like.

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by rspott

We started a group on Facebook regarding this issue:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/902269000568556

Of the data I have collected, I have not yet seen a "good" bulkhead.

So I guess the answer is all types of use and all types of oceans crossed?

The boat is rated for CE A-D: https://yachtsinvest.com/faq/ce-yach...lassification/

The how and why of the past are not really that important here. The future how and why really is.

i checked my 400 and dont have issue. From what i have seen so far of 450 all faulty bulkheads look dull colour. Is this the pattern? That would mean water is the issue ...

From my research on L400, not big issue if not worried about upwind performance. If bulkhead cracks. then you gotta fix it.

[LeeV]

We live @90 minutes away, but both work and can only get there on the weekends. We've only been on the boat a few times due to Covid and living out of state taking care of family for a year. Now we're de-commissioning and trying to repair, update and replace before we actually sail; even then we need to haul out and do the bottom.


I'm looking over all the info, but do not want to panic. Lagoon "probably" will not do anything to help, and we aren't sailing yet, so we're safe. I'll work on it as soon as I can and keep up with events as they unfold.


Thanks.

[rspott]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

i checked my 400 and dont have issue. From what i have seen so far of 450 all faulty bulkheads look dull colour. Is this the pattern? That would mean water is the issue ...

From my research on L400, not big issue if not worried about upwind performance. If bulkhead cracks. then you gotta fix it.

Right. So we are not looking for a _cause_ at this time. We are looking for data in the form of pictures for the L450.

I’m quite pleased that your 400 is not showing issues. What method did you use to expose the bulkheads?

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by rspott

Right. So we are not looking for a _cause_ at this time. We are looking for data in the form of pictures for the L450.

I’m quite pleased that your 400 is not showing issues. What method did you use to expose the bulkheads?

uncovering floor and look from below, both sides. BK is straight and nice colour.

We have not tensioned rig in 8 years and still when carrying full sail in 25 kn app, leeward shroud does not dance. If BK weakened/damaged rig tension would tell. Our L 400 does not have triple BK at the bottom like 450. BK is 15mm thick.

[rspott]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

uncovering floor and look from below, both sides. BK is straight and nice colour.

We have not tensioned rig in 8 years and still when carrying full sail in 25 kn app, leeward shroud does not dance. If BK weakened/damaged rig tension would tell. Our L 400 does not have triple BK at the bottom like 450. BK is 15mm thick.

Ah. I am not familiar with the structure. On the 450 we cannot see up from below in this method.

[SnakeEyes]

Watch Parlay Revival, https://youtu.be/y0PkI8ZFDok.

Their boat is hurricane damaged but the issues they have with the boat, mainly the build quality and how everything is bonded is just appalling.

Sure it is a hurricane damaged boat but there is more to it than just the damage from hurricane.

The work they are putting in to get that boat sea worthy again is just insane.

[purplesunrise]

Originally Posted by rspott

Of course! When you submit a report you get a response.

Reported twice (new photo) but never received a response.