450: 2019 Lagoon 460F ordered!

[Catapault]

Originally Posted by Darksyde

The batteries are in the engine room

Yuk.

Not a good place for lithium that's for sure. Temperature on any battery bank is a concern.

One thing I really like on the 450, is everything important (not engines !) is inside the core living area of the hulls. Batteries and Water tanks especially !.

If you go Lithium on a 46, I'd investigate someplace else to put the batteries and the Inverter.

Mark.

[spvisd]

Originally Posted by Catapault

Yuk.

Not a good place for lithium that's for sure. Temperature on any battery bank is a concern.

One thing I really like on the 450, is everything important (not engines !) is inside the core living area of the hulls. Batteries and Water tanks especially !.

If you go Lithium on a 46, I'd investigate someplace else to put the batteries and the Inverter.

Mark.

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the feedback. For sure temperature is not good for any battery but especially so for non-lithium. Quality lithium can be charged up to 45c and discharged up to 60c. The power curve changes are minimal at these temperatures. I've requested from Lagoon the engine room temperature specs but I have to believe they meet the standard of MAX 50c while engines are running. My company in the USA designs power systems for the military and my engineers are telling me that 50c is not a concern. Also the % of time the engines will be running "hopefully" will be limited to short runs and a few 24hr runs when there is no wind. I'm assuming Lagoon has some experience in this because they put lead acid batteries in the engine compartment and heat absolutely kills lead acid. But you know what they say about assumptions Do you have any experience at this being a bad idea? Hoping to just pull out the factory batteries and drop in the lithium when I pickup the boat in France. I've boated long enough to know nothing goes as planned! Don't want to kill $25k worth of batteries and moving them creates a whole new set of problems on wiring, weight distribution etc.

Cheers - Scott

[CatNewBee]

There are various rumors from RV users that say, LiFePO4 would age faster when exposed to higher temperatures.

You can checkout Technomadia, they have some experience with the LiFePO4

Technomadia on LiFePO4
Living the Lithium Lifestyle – 3.5 Year Lithium RV Battery Update
There are other RV forums with a large LFP community, with evangelists praying that temperature is even worse then storing in high SOC or even charging a battery above 30%.

But as in all forums, there is always a guru that has a strong opinion on something so take it with a grain of salt...

I would try to not expose the battery unnecessary to high temperatures, if not absolutely necessary.

[spvisd]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

There are various rumors from RV users that say, LiFePO4 would age faster when exposed to higher temperatures.

You can checkout Technomadia, they have some experience with the LiFePO4

There are other RV forums with a large LFP community, with evangelists praying that temperature is even worse then storing in high SOC or even charging a battery above 30%.

Bus as in all forums, there is always a guru that has a strong opinion on something so take it with a grain of salt...

For sure and all Lithium chemistries are a bit of black magic. You are correct Lithium does not like to be above 80% SOC so if you can maintain SOC between 50%-80% the batteries will outlive you. That said we are talking 2000-5000 cycles with any effort to reasonably maintain them. It's a very long time and I'm going to bet in the next 5 years lithium will be ancient technology. If they only last 5 years because you abuse them that still gives you 1600ah of usable power so $400 a month. In the scheme of what everything else costs it seems reasonable to have unlimited power while cruising.

Cheers - Scott

[CatNewBee]

I calculate differently.

In my house I pay for shore power about 0.30€/kWh and use about 5600kWh/year, what costs me around 1600€ yearly.

The 1000Ah battery stores 15kWh energy. Let's say, it lasts 4000 deep cycles, it would be 60000kWh that I get mainly from solar. On shore power it would cost me 18000€, the battery costs are 5000€, the solar 3000€, still 10000€ saved.

This energy would match my usage in 11 years on shore, so I save per year 1000€ on energy when using my LFP bank.
break even would be after 5 years or 28000kWh - what boils down to 1900 cycles. I am pretty sure, this is achievable.

[spvisd]

Originally Posted by CatNewBee

I calculate differently.

In my house I pay for shore power about 0.30€/kWh and use about 5600kWh/year, what costs me around 1600€ yearly.

The 1000Ah battery stores 15kWh energy. Let's say, it lasts 4000 deep cycles, it would be 60000kWh that I get mainly from solar. On shore power it would cost me 18000€, the battery costs are 5000€, the solar 3000€, still 10000€ saved.

This energy would match my usage in 11 years on shore, so I save per year 1000€ on energy when using my LFP bank.
break even would be after 5 years or 28000kWh - what boils down to 1900 cycles. I am pretty sure, this is achievable.

WOW 0.30€kw/h we pay 0.11 USD kw/h so for you it really makes sense.

[CatNewBee]

Originally Posted by spvisd

WOW 0.30€kw/h we pay 0.11 USD kw/h so for you it really makes sense.

Yes, that's Germany, the green lobby is crazy here, they impose insane taxes on electricity and fuel to leverage renewables, fight the global warming and ban diesel cars and trucks from major cities because of stupid NOX restrictions and lobby for ever tighter EU regulations.