Crew Wanted: What do YOU charge for 'delivery'?

[wagsea6b]

Originally Posted by TacomaSailor

"The bad:
- approx $4,000 decomissioning
- approx $5,000 trucking
- approx $4,000 re-commissioning

...and that was with me doing everything to recommission except the rigging."

I've got to wonder about those costs.

In March this year I checked with yards here in San Diego for getting our 40' cutter onto a truck for shipping.

$1,200 if I do as much work as possible.

Hylebos Marina/Yard in Tacoma, WA said they would take the boat off the truck, step the mast, and put the 40' boat back in the water for $1,000.

It's a 48 foot boat with a 69 foot mast. Everything skyrockets above 45 feet I've quickly found out...instead of two guys it takes 5...instead of the small crane it requires the big one...

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by Paul Annapolis

I charge more than what respondents above have said. If an owner of a yacht (let's face it--a very expensive toy) wants to pay less to a "competitor", he can hire that person who is wiling to take on the work, the responsibility, the preparation, the risk, the exhaustion, being away from home, the travel etc etc etc rather than have me work a 24 hour day for what amounts to a very low hourly pay. Owners of yachts who either cannot handle the boat they bought, or cannot take a week or two to move it because they are too busy working (and earning in an hour or two perhaps what some captains charge per 24 hour day) should be willing to pay a decent wage to we professionals who leave home and accept great risk and responsibility to run their boats. None of us can ever afford a nice boat such as the ones our clients needs us to operate if we are only going to earn a few hundred a day--and for how many days a year?? If they need a labor market of professionals to perform these tasks, they should be willing to pay. I do not know how a "professional" can make it on $250 or $300 per day, but I won't do it and frankly, cannot understand how or why anyone else will do it and still refer to themselves as professional. Certainly someone may get upset with me for saying this, and I mean no ill will toward anyone, but at least I identify myself online here as a marine service provider. While a USCG ticket may not be required (although in some cases it is for insurance) just remember that it is a federal license! Other than airplane pilots, what other work demands a federal license??? That's got to be worth something more than a few hundred per day! Also, I do not understand charging by the mile. Does the boat go 100 miles in a day or three hundred miles in a day? Or is this an incentive to move it faster so the captain makes more per day, or what is the rationale? It's the time gone from home, moving the boat that counts and not the number of miles. A nice express cruiser at 20+ kts makes for an easier and faster trip in general than will a small sailboat at 5 kts.

I have to sympathize with Paul; deliveries are a tough way to make a living, There are people like me who yearn for the responsibility, the preparation, the exhaustion, and the days away from the home on the water. We don't do it for the money--I've spent more of my own money sailing around on my boat than I will ever make in deliveries. I'm not a 'professional', but I have more experience than most professionals, and people like me are the reason delivery prices are low.

A CG license is not required by most insurance companies, probably because their statistics show that its not a guarantee of risk reduction. I surrendered my 100 ton license because the CG medical group went crazy requiring all kinds of expensive and medically unnecessary tests on an annual basis--does that make me less competent??

As far as mileage vs daily rate, I'd probably do daily rate if I was going up and down the ICW where daily mileage is limited, but I prefer offshore. From the owner's perspective, you have to trust that the mileage skipper is not pushing too hard, but you also have to trust that the daily rate skipper is not enjoying life in the marinas on your payroll.

[Rockyscience]

Originally Posted by ErBrown

We did this when we bought our boat last October, though of course it was East coast to Texas.

Our experience was that on average, most skippers want $300-400 per day. I also believe most will charge a bit more for themselves to take the role as skipper/instructor than they would for their time when working with hired, well known crew. This is understandable since they don't know what they're getting into you as the owner from a skillset, work ethic, attitude perspective. We chose to break our trip into two legs, Maryland to Bahamas and Bahamas to Texas. Used the same skipper for both legs and he charged us $400 per day for the first leg since he didn't know what to expect from us. The second leg he charged $300 a day, despite it being the tougher of the two, because he knew we where reliable, and capable of standing our own watches and allowing him to sleep.

I'd do it again in a heart beat, great way to learn the boat while having a bit of a safety net in the way of a very experienced skipper along, just in case. I think some people have trouble taking orders on their own boat but if you go into it with the right attitude and realize you're hiring them for their experience and knowledge, I really think it's a great option. Way better than just having the boat magically appear for you.

In fact I actually think this is the right time to be in some more challenging conditions to benefit from their experience and see how the boat handles, again with that safety net.

Of course that's just based on our experience, so YMMV but we really enjoyed both trips...though the gulf kinda sucks...particularly in January .

Good luck and enjoy the process

Hello ErBrown, do you happen to know Bill Pitts owns a Endevor 44 in that area? He hired me to bring "Bill's Thrill" back from Sail Belize.

[Paul Annapolis]

I appreciate Don's thoughts but I have to disagree with him on a number of items. 1. Most insurance companies do require a license, at least in my experience. 2. I am not aware of any studies or statistic that show anything at all about the license and risk reduction but I am always asked to show proof of the license. 3. License or not, there is a huge difference between a retiree/hobbyist/sea hobo when it comes to entrusting your boat as opposed to hiring a professional whose livelihood depends on providing just that--a professional service. I won't go into details but I've seen enough and heard enough to know that this is usually true. A professional will be more reliable, efficient, trained, equipped and prepared in most cases than will the hobbyist or retiree..and yes, Don is correct that If he and others who are not really doing this for their living are doing this at a low fee-an unprofessional rate, if you will, he and others do keep rates down and make it harder for we professionals to earn a living. He may be more experienced than am I (there will always be someone more experienced) but if so, why will he work for less than I will work? In the long run, this lowers the standards and prestige of the profession and hurts the labor market for everyone--owners and professionals because it makes it less attractive and more difficult to earn a living. If owners want a labor market, they must be willing to pay professionals a professional price to do a professional job. The same is true for architects, accountants, lawyers, doctors, engineers etc....so why not boat captains? Plenty of people could draw a house, fill out papers, reset your bones, do your taxes....and those that do it professionally, as I sad before, earn in an hour what some boat captains will charge for a day--a 24 hour day--away from home--and at risk! They work in offices, go home at night and don't have to clean bilge pumps or heads.

[FamilyVan]

Originally Posted by Paul Annapolis

I appreciate Don's thoughts but I have to disagree with him on a number of items. 1. Most insurance companies do require a license, at least in my experience. 2. I am not aware of any studies or statistic that show anything at all about the license and risk reduction but I am always asked to show proof of the license. 3. License or not, there is a huge difference between a retiree/hobbyist/sea hobo when it comes to entrusting your boat as opposed to hiring a professional whose livelihood depends on providing just that--a professional service. I won't go into details but I've seen enough and heard enough to know that this is usually true. A professional will be more reliable, efficient, trained, equipped and prepared in most cases than will the hobbyist or retiree..and yes, Don is correct that If he and others who are not really doing this for their living are doing this at a low fee-an unprofessional rate, if you will, he and others do keep rates down and make it harder for we professionals to earn a living. He may be more experienced than am I (there will always be someone more experienced) but if so, why will he work for less than I will work? In the long run, this lowers the standards and prestige of the profession and hurts the labor market for everyone--owners and professionals because it makes it less attractive and more difficult to earn a living. If owners want a labor market, they must be willing to pay professionals a professional price to do a professional job. The same is true for architects, accountants, lawyers, doctors, engineers etc....so why not boat captains? Plenty of people could draw a house, fill out papers, reset your bones, do your taxes....and those that do it professionally, as I sad before, earn in an hour what some boat captains will charge for a day--a 24 hour day--away from home--and at risk! They work in offices, go home at night and don't have to clean bilge pumps or heads.

On the flip side Paul, you might be doing the industry a disservice if you're cleaning heads and bilges. The $500 CDN/day that I quoted was my rate, but I would always carry at a minimum an engineer/mechanic plus a mate/deckhand and whatever other crew were needed. As a Captain my job was weather routing, route planning, dealing with clients, docking, I didn't drive the boat or work in bilges. A 120' boat wasn't $500 CDN/ day. It was $500 cdn / day for me, $300-400 per day for each the mate and engineer plus maybe $150/day for each of a couple deckhands. That's more like a delivery rate of $1600/day plus expenses (ie- fuel).

I suppose I'm as much at fault for stating what my rate had been, without defining what that would get you. Which brings me to my point, a rate alone doesn't give the full storey (which Paul alluded to with mentioning different levels of service from say a pro vs amateur). You really have to state your rate and what services are provided for that rate.

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[donradcliffe]

Its kind of like choosing between the taxi and Uber.

There are horror stories on both sides. A friend who is an excellent retiree/hobbyist seaman bought a brand new Ocean Alexander 68, and because it was his first big motoryacht, he hired a professional captain to help him bring the boat from the Chesapeake to Florida. The first day the captain ran it aground, bent the props, and that was the end of him.

[Delivery Guy]

After 20 continuous years of delivering out of San Francisco, I charge $250-300/day + expenses. That's cheap. Beware the guys that'll do it cheaper. Fine tuning that price depends, of course, on boat and route etc.
Best
Delivery Guy

[boatman61]

"I'm considering a 1985 Baba 30 in San Diego. I'm working on the assumption the wear-n-tear on the 30 year old is negligible since she's done far longer passages and crossed the Pacific many times, and this uphill beat to Seattle surely can't be the most stressful thing she's been up against."


You remind me off me back in 2000.. flew to St Martin from the UK to buy this 'Perfect Cheoy Lee 36' called Whisper.. with $30K cash in a money belt strapped round my belly..
Looked gorgeous in the photo's, impressive inventory, blah. blah..
The reality when I got there was wooden masts with 6ft varnish pennants, rust streaked stainless and a teak deck that had died the previous decade.. ended up buying a Beneteau 321 and soloing it back to the UK... my first ever solo crossing bigger than the Biscay.
Yes I could charge a lot more but I for one cannot hack the Ass Licking that goes with the extra cash..
I charge by the mile and am tons cheaper than you because I do not live in the US of A.. where we do not have to take out Rescue Insurance coz there's queues of folks this side volunteer to save lives their priority being Life is worth more than the $$$'s
Also to prevent owners taking the piss and turning it into a
'Grand Tour' I have a day rate for time spent in port.. makes em think hard about that 3 days inland in a hire car..
I have found though that the odd owner will try and take the piss out of us by short changing or even ducking payment so its 50% up front and the right to walk away if the boat (or Owner) sucks.. have yet to walk..
Doubt you'd even step on board some I've taken across oceans.. but $$'s seems to be your Buzz..
Mine is the challenge..
Each to their own..

PS; I refuse to work in the US so don't fret about my stealing from your 'Rice Bowl'..

[cp1]

Many variables here that I use to set the rate.

Vessel size n value
Crew required
Route to be taken; coastal, offshore
Time of year
Condition and equipment on vessel
Owners attitude

Yes after many years it all falls into patterns - especially the people/owners. Do they show you respect you've earned as a pro.?

One price don't fit all Dorothy not in Kansas no more.

Beam winds.



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[FamilyVan]

He he he, I like Boatman's post.

People will only pay what they will pay.

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[Steadman Uhlich]

Since so many Delivery captains are involved in this thread, I have a question for you all:

Does your daily fee (e.g. $300/day) include payment to any Crew?

Or, is that additional if the Delivery Captain says he has or will use Crew?

If extra, how much does the Boat Owner have to pay for the Crew, and is that paid directly from Boat Owner to Crew or is it through the Delivery Captain? Is it a fixed fee or a per diem fee?

I recognize that many Delivery Captains say to the Boat Owner they will provide their own Crew for the delivery voyage, and that some Delivery Captains do deliveries singlehanded.

[FamilyVan]

Whoa, slow down Paul. I thought your post had value, I think many of your posts have value.

When you slag guys for charging $500 CDN a day they will defend themselves.

What the heck do you charge?

Of course I don't clean bilges or clean heads, jebus, I have an STCW Masters licence and only ran boats with a minimum safe manning document.

My point was- what do you get for your $250 a day? I was supporting your argument, not putting you down.

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[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by FamilyVan

Whoa, slow down Paul. I thought your post had value, I think many of your posts have value.

When you slag guys for charging $500 CDN a day they will defend themselves.

What the heck do you charge?

Of course I don't clean bilges or clean heads, jebus, I have an STCW Masters licence and only ran boats with a minimum safe manning document.

My point was- what do you get for your $250 a day? I was supporting your argument, not putting you down.

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When I buy something or pay for a service I always ask the price beforehand. If the price is too high for me I decline politely. I never berate the seller for being too high, that is his business and right. I just look elsewhere or somehow make due. No need for trash-talk.

[Paul Annapolis]

Family Van, I was not referring to you except for the part about doing a disservice by having to clean bilges or heads--it come with the territory sometimes.. Your posts are often very informative too. I don't know what it means to slag, and I have not translated 500 CDN to USD. Things get out of hand too easily on online forums. Bottom line for me? $250 to $300 USD per day is way too low. When others charge that low, it really makes it difficult to earn a living and to enter or stay in this labor market. Those "competitors" who do it as a hobby or for retirement are generally not as reliable or efficient or devoted as those who do it for a living. I said "generally" as I am not painting with a broad brush here. If the owner of a yacht (no average joe ..ahem) thinks my quote is too high, he can go elsewhere...you generally get what you pay for but I don't do what I do so they can enjoy cruising around unless they pay me a reasonable fee. Otherwise I wont even be able to afford anything in my bowl much less rice.

[DominoX]

Oh Crap !!!!

I've really stirred up a hornets nest here

All I wanted when I started this post is a ROUGH idea of what it would cost me to get a sailboat home if I bought out-of-state (see original post #1).

And ... thanks to the dozens of delivery skippers that have replied here and on PM, I now have a good idea of what it costs.

Guys, no need to get up each others noses on this. Life is too short. Your rates are actually too low by far to compensate for the risk/effort you put in. Shame on us owners for not recognizing that and rewarding you appropriately.

Incidentally, we seem to be hitting a nerve here. Last look shows ++2,750 views of this thread in the section, far more than any other in "Crew Wanted".

Let's keep it civil. I for one have learnt more here in a few days than I have in 6 months of research about West coast sailing conditions. Others will benefit in a similar way ... but not if this turns into a pi##ing contest of our egos (and we sailors have bigger than most).

Thanks to all.