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Old 16-11-2014, 19:47   #16
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Re: half yacht, Catalac 10m, 1987, Mozambique, USD75,000.00, fully equiped passage ma

Quote:
Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
Hate to be negative, but you may want to consider the price you have tagged it at would make it $150K. That appears to be substantially out of the market. Add to it the location, and that most people do not want to be in a partnership on a boat, you have three strikes against you.

You can't change the location or that you want a partnership, so the only incentive you have is to post a very attractive price.

This Catalac 10M is in Turkey, for 48,000 pounds which is $77,000 for the whole boat. Many 9M's are substantially under $50K.

You either have to decide that you really can not be in a partnership on the boat at all, or drastically reduce the price. Considering that $77K will get you a whole boat, half would be $38.5, but then you have a large difference in location, and negotiation room, I would suggest you would be lucky to get someone to be a partner for $30K.

Again, I am not trying to be negative, just realistic.

From many years advising businesses on marketing, an overpriced item will rarely bring people back when a price is reduced. In most cases, if anyone is remotely interested, pricing needs to be reasonable in the first place.
Even worse, the Catalac 10M is in Turkey is priced in Euros. "Price Reduced: €48,000" ~ $ 60.000
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Old 16-11-2014, 23:10   #17
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Re: half yacht, Catalac 10m, 1987, Mozambique, USD75,000.00, fully equiped passage ma

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Originally Posted by onestepcsy37 View Post
So the questions still remain.

Who wants to own half of an old boat in Mozambique? And,
Where the hell is Mozambique?
I assumed CF is a cruisers forum not a forum for the geographically iliterate! I am not going to be put on the defensive about what I offer. If we get members replying to threads without reading any of the posts how can they expect to be taken serious. I am on CF, living in East Africa, realizing that a forum like CF probably has its membership majority in USA. As a cruisers forum perse, I am sure that some members can understand the difficulties of remaining cruising in exceptionally great cruising areas like North Mozambique, Tanzania, Comoros, Mayotte, Madagascar, Seychelles... and can appreciate that the anchorages in this cruising area are unique, of the highest natural beauty standards, no polution worth mentioning, and guess what almost never encounters with charter yachts. I am sure I don't have to explain why that is so great!

One more thing, I am not desperate to get money at all, I see this offer as a great opportunity for a true cruiser, who wants peace of mind, wants access to this cruising area, is great company, wants to share fantastic way of life!
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Old 16-11-2014, 23:13   #18
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Re: half yacht, Catalac 10m, 1987, Mozambique, USD75,000.00, fully equiped passage ma

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Originally Posted by Reiziger View Post
Even worse, the Catalac 10M is in Turkey is priced in Euros. "Price Reduced: €48,000" ~ $ 60.000
Members need to read all posts before barging in and make strong uninformed statements! Please don't compare my ship with a turkisch catalac. I suggest if that catalac in turkey is equiped and set up like mine you better buy it fast!
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Old 16-11-2014, 23:23   #19
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Re: half yacht, Catalac 10m, 1987, Mozambique, USD75,000.00, fully equiped passage ma

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Originally Posted by CSY Man View Post
The local prices are probably way higher as he points out.
(have only been there with an airplane, not with a boat)
I would recommend advertising the boat, or half of it, localy.
There should be local cruisers
/wannabees who thinks this is a good deal, if
indeed it is.
I really appreciate your informed contribution! Good point, I could sell narket locally. Mozambique diesnt have a market for yachts, there are two marinas both in Maputo the capital, 1300nm South of where I like to cruise. Both moarinas focus on small speedboats, capacity in obe marina for sailboats none, other maximum ten. The advantage is we have the greatest cruising areas of this world all to ourselves. Nearby South Africa has active yacht market and South Africans, few mind you will rather keep their yacht in SA with that country fkag as import duty in Mozambique is to steep. I imported my cat to ve allowed to anchor out anywhere in Moz for unlimited time! If you search Mozambique coastal geography you will see the cruising opportunities are great. Many safe anchorages. Cyclone belt is from Maputo to Ilha de Mozambique and from November to April. North Mizambique is well out of this cyclone zone.
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Old 17-11-2014, 04:03   #20
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Re: half yacht, Catalac 10m, 1987, Mozambique, USD75,000.00, fully equiped passage ma

I think you're marketing to the wrong audience. If everything you say is true about the local area, i.e. high prices of boats, beauty of cruising grounds, quality and condition of your particular boat, etc. there should no problem to find a willing half owner at the vicinity of your asking price. Why market it to a very reluctant audience half way around he world, especially considering the prices here in US? If someone is an old salt and truly wants to be cruising among such secluded grounds what will stop them from buying a similar boat in Trukey for half the price or less and taking her to Mozambique? If that someone is a US based newbie he/she definitely will not go into such an arrangement where they have to fly half way around the world to get a week or two of sailing, albeit among the great cruising paradise you say it is, for the privilege of paying $75,000 outrigth plus the yearly upkeep and expenses?

Your best strategy seems to be is to offer any potential buyer outside your general area an "at cost cruise", to overcome all of the challenges of such an arrangement as you're marketing. May be than you'll get someone interested enough to think about it.
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Old 17-11-2014, 04:53   #21
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Re: half yacht, Catalac 10m, 1987, Mozambique, USD75,000.00, fully equiped passage ma

Quote:
Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post
I think you're marketing to the wrong audience. If everything you say is true about the local area, i.e. high prices of boats, beauty of cruising grounds, quality and condition of your particular boat, etc. there should no problem to find a willing half owner at the vicinity of your asking price. Why market it to a very reluctant audience half way around he world, especially considering the prices here in US? If someone is an old salt and truly wants to be cruising among such secluded grounds what will stop them from buying a similar boat in Trukey for half the price or less and taking her to Mozambique? If that someone is a US based newbie he/she definitely will not go into such an arrangement where they have to fly half way around the world to get a week or two of sailing, albeit among the great cruising paradise you say it is, for the privilege of paying $75,000 outrigth plus the yearly upkeep and expenses?

Your best strategy seems to be is to offer any potential buyer outside your general area an "at cost cruise", to overcome all of the challenges of such an arrangement as you're marketing. May be than you'll get someone interested enough to think about it.
Thanks for making your very good point. To take catalac from turkey to here and be allowed to liveaboard as long you wish with unique access to unique cruising ground would cost more than $150k! You are of course right that I am targetting far away "cruising crowd" but think of this if one will show serious interest must be a real cruiser who is not fazed by Mozambique being far away. Are we just local US cruisers on CF. There are circumnavigators galore on CF and I dont think they would be afraid of this paradisial corner of the world. I am from Northern Europe myself, in distance further away than US from here North Mozambique! i cant believe CF is only catering for couch cruisers.
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Old 17-11-2014, 05:45   #22
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Re: half yacht, Catalac 10m, 1987, Mozambique, USD75,000.00, fully equiped passage ma

"i cant believe CF is only catering for couch cruisers."

Ummm... you realize, you are attacking the customer base you are trying to market toward?

"I assumed CF is a cruisers forum not a forum for the geographically iliterate! "

I think you missed the point. I'm sure everyone has a pretty good idea where you are cruising. An experienced long distance cruiser would just travel there themselves if interested. A newbie is not likely to be drawn to an out of the way cruising for an overpriced boat. The comment was hyperbole.

Nobody has indicated they are afraid. It's just not a popular destination and the hassles of dealing with high import fees and dealing with officials probably plays into that.

You stuggle is to find something that sets your boat apart but does so in a positive way:
- Claiming your boat is better than all the comparable boats is standard marketing practice...and more often than not turns out to be untrue, so simply claiming yours is better won't cut it. If your boat truely is better, you have an uphill battle proving it from half a world away where it's not easy for people to confirm.
- I'm sure it's a lovely cruising ground but there are many lovely cruising grounds around the world. Many of those other cruising grounds are well known, easy to reach and have other cruisers to socialize with. Again, you are facing an uphill battle to get a cruiser to commit to a single little known cruising ground on a permanet basis. (non-couch cruisers typically aren't satisfied with just a single cruising ground)
- Then you have the ongoing expenses. A similar situation say in the Bahamas would run $200-500 per person for airfare and a modest 1-4hr flight, making it relatively easy to visit frequently and even long weekends become a reasonable possibility. Your boat is more like $1800-2000per person with at least a full day tied up in travel each way (Europe would be cheaper but still int he $1200-1500 range). Assuming 4 visits per year for a couple, is going to run maybe $2800 for the Bahamas vs upwards of $10k for africa. For someone looking at spending only $75k on a boat, that's lot of ongoing expense just for airfare (repairs, outfitting, etc are also likely to be much more expensive than popular cruising grounds)

As someone else suggested a low cost charter may be an option...but it's still a tough call. If you make it too cheap, you will get tire kickers who may have no intention of following thru on a purchase. If you make it too expensive, you price yourself out of the market. Someone limiting thier purchase to $75k is likely not going to spend $10k+ (including airfare and incidentals) just to check out a single boat.

From a marketing perspective, you can be realistic or you can sit on the boat for years.
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Old 17-11-2014, 06:06   #23
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Re: half yacht, Catalac 10m, 1987, Mozambique, USD75,000.00, fully equiped passage ma

Quote:
Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
"i cant believe CF is only catering for couch cruisers."

Ummm... you realize, you are attacking the customer base you are trying to market toward?

"I assumed CF is a cruisers forum not a forum for the geographically iliterate! "

I think you missed the point. I'm sure everyone has a pretty good idea where you are cruising. An experienced long distance cruiser would just travel there themselves if interested. A newbie is not likely to be drawn to an out of the way cruising for an overpriced boat. The comment was hyperbole.

Nobody has indicated they are afraid. It's just not a popular destination and the hassles of dealing with high import fees and dealing with officials probably plays into that.

You stuggle is to find something that sets your boat apart but does so in a positive way:
- Claiming your boat is better than all the comparable boats is standard marketing practice...and more often than not turns out to be untrue, so simply claiming yours is better won't cut it. If your boat truely is better, you have an uphill battle proving it from half a world away where it's not easy for people to confirm.
- I'm sure it's a lovely cruising ground but there are many lovely cruising grounds around the world. Many of those other cruising grounds are well known, easy to reach and have other cruisers to socialize with. Again, you are facing an uphill battle to get a cruiser to commit to a single little known cruising ground on a permanet basis. (non-couch cruisers typically aren't satisfied with just a single cruising ground)
- Then you have the ongoing expenses. A similar situation say in the Bahamas would run $200-500 per person for airfare and a modest 1-4hr flight, making it relatively easy to visit frequently and even long weekends become a reasonable possibility. Your boat is more like $1800-2000per person with at least a full day tied up in travel each way (Europe would be cheaper but still int he $1200-1500 range). Assuming 4 visits per year for a couple, is going to run maybe $2800 for the Bahamas vs upwards of $10k for africa. For someone looking at spending only $75k on a boat, that's lot of ongoing expense just for airfare (repairs, outfitting, etc are also likely to be much more expensive than popular cruising grounds)

As someone else suggested a low cost charter may be an option...but it's still a tough call. If you make it too cheap, you will get tire kickers who may have no intention of following thru on a purchase. If you make it too expensive, you price yourself out of the market. Someone limiting thier purchase to $75k is likely not going to spend $10k+ (including airfare and incidentals) just to check out a single boat.

From a marketing perspective, you can be realistic or you can sit on the boat for years.
Thanks for your analysis. And I didnt intend to attack CF membership at all. From other threads I have seen very good posts, like yours by the way. You are direct, non elusive and honest! You are right over the entire scope of your analysis. I agree totally, except the cruisers that want to cruise here sailing here themselves. They can sail here but wont find it easy to cruise and liveaboard here. Not mentioning the fact that if you sail yacht from US to here you will have to start repairs and simply no chandkers or marinas or haul outs here.

The way I see it, I am not desparate, I hope for fellow cruiser, who knows the value of what I offer, after reading my postings here. Actually I only need one perfect partner in cruising that appreciates here, my little cat, our base, the way we have smoothened out bureaucracy, maintenance headaches, the way we are equiped. Concerning fly ins and outs again you hit the nail.... but I hope for partner who doesnt fly out, in.. but who spends most of his/ her time liveaboard here. Concerning marketting, is not my field, I haven't said my old dat is new condition, but it is very solid, very well equiped, everything is working, we need new paint job, but not urgent, bottom paint new up to date......
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Old 17-11-2014, 09:26   #24
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Re: half yacht, Catalac 10m, 1987, Mozambique, USD75,000.00, fully equiped passage ma

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reiziger View Post
Even worse, the Catalac 10M is in Turkey is priced in Euros. "Price Reduced: €48,000" ~ $ 60.000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goosebumps View Post
Members need to read all posts before barging in and make strong uninformed statements! Please don't compare my ship with a turkisch catalac. I suggest if that catalac in turkey is equiped and set up like mine you better buy it fast!
I feel your pain, as you can see I live in Brazil and be "boatless". When I went to Brazil some 5 years agoo I sold my 49' in Europe because of the idiot over 100% import duty Brazil wants. This was no option because I knew when importing the boat I was loosing the same day half the value of the boat.

I am now in the process of buying again a boat in Europe and bring it to the Caribbean then at least I am sailing again. Brazil is, I think like Mozambique, a No No.
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Old 17-11-2014, 12:41   #25
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Re: half yacht, Catalac 10m, 1987, Mozambique, USD75,000.00, fully equiped passage ma

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reiziger View Post
I feel your pain, as you can see I live in Brazil and be "boatless". When I went to Brazil some 5 years agoo I sold my 49' in Europe because of the idiot over 100% import duty Brazil wants. This was no option because I knew when importing the boat I was loosing the same day half the value of the boat.

I am now in the process of buying again a boat in Europe and bring it to the Caribbean then at least I am sailing again. Brazil is, I think like Mozambique, a No No.
It seems it is the portuguese influence amigo, anything with a mast is a yacht here in Mozambique, and if its a yacht 90% of value import duty. Then they also push the value up, whatever proof of payment you got!

I want to say and emphasise that postings as yours really make it worth for me to put effort in contributing to CF by subscribing to threads, creating new threads! Why I mention this because to little is known about such issues as import of yachts, cruising permits for foreign yachts, visa issues, political issues. For the world cruiser these are the important issues, sites like noonsite assist us but it is the struggling cruiser that has the right helpful info. The fact also that few here want to understand that a catalac in turkey cant be compared with imported catalac in Mozambique or Brazil, for that matter, is paralyzing. One can ask: so why bother to import it? to vest the bureaucratic limits to our cruising in paradisial environments Thanks man from fellow Dutchman
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Old 17-11-2014, 21:27   #26
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Re: half yacht, Catalac 10m, 1987, Mozambique, USD75,000.00, fully equiped passage ma

And then theres Mozambique. Some data from the CIA World Factbook.

HIV/AIDS rate - 11% of the population
HIV/AIDS Deaths - 76,800 per year (5th highest in world)
Degree of risk for major infectious diseases - Very High
Physician density - 3 doctors per 100,000 people (not a misprint!)
Hospital beds - 7 per 10,000 people
Child labor, 5 to 14 years of age - 22% of workforce
Paved Road network - 6300 km
Percent of population 55+ years of age - 6.4%
Merchant Marine Registry - 2 ships
Infant Mortality Rate - 72 per 1000 births
Access to clean water - 50% of population
Access to sanitary facilities - 21% of population
Airports with 8000+ ft runway - 1
Literacy Rate - 56% of population
Life Expectancy - 52 years
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Old 17-11-2014, 21:42   #27
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Re: half yacht, Catalac 10m, 1987, Mozambique, USD75,000.00, fully equiped passage ma

Quote:
Originally Posted by onestepcsy37 View Post
And then theres Mozambique. Some data from the CIA World Factbook.

HIV/AIDS rate - 11% of the population
HIV/AIDS Deaths - 76,800 per year (5th highest in world)
Degree of risk for major infectious diseases - Very High
Physician density - 3 doctors per 100,000 people (not a misprint!)
Hospital beds - 7 per 10,000 people
Child labor, 5 to 14 years of age - 22% of workforce
Paved Road network - 6300 km
Percent of population 55+ years of age - 6.4%
Merchant Marine Registry - 2 ships
Infant Mortality Rate - 72 per 1000 births
Access to clean water - 50% of population
Access to sanitary facilities - 21% of population
Airports with 8000+ ft runway - 1
Literacy Rate - 56% of population
Life Expectancy - 52 years
And they're welcoming potential boat owners with a 100% import duty? Lovely.
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Old 18-11-2014, 00:39   #28
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Re: half yacht, Catalac 10m, 1987, Mozambique, USD75,000.00, fully equiped passage ma

I am not going to quote anyone but I think many of the CF cruisers can see why I was earlier posting tempted to talk about couch cruisers. Tell me how many countries we shouldnt cruise to if we let CIA decide for us. I used to be couch adventurer to long time ago, I didnt know better, my european education made me to never even consider visiting Latin America, India, Africa! I am so happy thst eventually I saw the light and did bit by bit venture into the so called third world. I am available to offer courses how to survive in such environments, after all my record surviving 25 years such countries, environments, speaks for itself. You gave me idea for a new CF thread: separate the couch salts from the old salts.
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Old 18-11-2014, 15:20   #29
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Re: half yacht, Catalac 10m, 1987, Mozambique, USD75,000.00, fully equiped passage ma

Many posts deleted which have nothing to do with the sale of the boat. Please keep comments on topic.
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