Free: Crooks You Run into when Selling your Boat

[Hoodsail]

Thanks for the FBI note - I will forward all of my scammers information to them in hopes that it might lead to their demise..

[Andrew B.]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

Maybe the US should just stop using cheques :-)

Really nothing much wrong with the US checking system if used properly.

Unless its a small amount I prefer a personal check. No goods or services
given until the check clears. Or if it's local you just go to the bank the
check is drawn on and leave with cash in hand. easy peasy

Small amounts of cash might be okay. But if someone buys a canoe from
me for a $1000 cash we are going to my bank and have the cash checked,
cleared, and deposited before they take possession of said canoe. I worry
much more about counterfeit money than I do a personal check.

I also use US Postal Service money orders for amounts up to $500 to
pay someone or be paid. You can do larger amounts, but they may not
have enough cash on hand to cash it if it's a really large amount.

In person bank to bank wire transfer is well worth
the small fees when you get into deals involving thousands.

US $100 bills can't be trusted, paypal has fees
(but handy for small international transactions).
Cashiers and bank checks seem safe and secure, but both have been counterfeited.

I have never had a honest person object to verification.

[Phantoms]

Originally Posted by Andrew B.

Really nothing much wrong with the US checking system if used properly.

Unless its a small amount I prefer a personal check. No goods or services
given until the check clears. Or if it's local you just go to the bank the
check is drawn on and leave with cash in hand. easy peasy

Small amounts of cash might be okay. But if someone buys a canoe from
me for a $1000 cash we are going to my bank and have the cash checked,
cleared, and deposited before they take possession of said canoe. I worry
much more about counterfeit money than I do a personal check.

I also use US Postal Service money orders for amounts up to $500 to
pay someone or be paid. You can do larger amounts, but they may not
have enough cash on hand to cash it if it's a really large amount.

In person bank to bank wire transfer is well worth
the small fees when you get into deals involving thousands.

US $100 bills can't be trusted, paypal has fees
(but handy for small international transactions).
Cashiers and bank checks seem safe and secure, but both have been counterfeited.

I have never had a honest person object to verification.

I hate checks. Checks have everything an identity thief needs printed right on them. Your name, address, bank, account number, routing number, signature, etc.

[Cheechako]

I've sold a lot of things on craigs list. It's a great way to sell things. Be careful though! A lot of scammers out there right now, especially on big ticket items. I can smell them a mile away. The last one asked for my paypal info and he would pay thru that. haha. On craig's list, my rule is they have to show up here in person, or meet me in busy parking lot if I don't want them here.
I had a boat for sale, one guy kept texting me with a low ball offer every couple of weeks. Hadnt even looked at the boat. I don't discuss price until someone has viewed the item and say they are ready to backup an offer with money.

[skipmac]

Hi Andrew,

Very good suggestions but a couple of comments.

I agree that US $100 bills are often counterfeited but from my admittedly limited experience, counterfeit bills are pretty easily detected, especially on the new bills. Look close and you can feel the paper isn't right, the watermark isn't present or isn't clear, security strip missing or drawn in instead of part of the bill.

In a couple of situations I have objected to a seller insisting on verification of my honesty and funds. Specifically when buying something online or from an ad posted somewhere out of my area. I have had sellers insist they must have cleared funds before shipping because I'm a stranger and they cannot risk shipping to me. My reply, you, the seller are a stranger to me but I have to send you my money and trust you will ship the product and the product will be as described?

In one case involving almost $1000 I asked the seller to list the item on eBay with a buy it now price that we had agreed. I was waiting for the listing, bought it a paid with Paypal to use their buyer protection. Costs a small eBay fee but worth it for the peace of mind.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Hi Andrew,

Very good suggestions but a couple of comments.

I agree that US $100 bills are often counterfeited but from my admittedly limited experience, counterfeit bills are pretty easily detected, especially on the new bills. Look close and you can feel the paper isn't right, the watermark isn't present or isn't clear, security strip missing or drawn in instead of part of the bill.

In a couple of situations I have objected to a seller insisting on verification of my honesty and funds. Specifically when buying something online or from an ad posted somewhere out of my area. I have had sellers insist they must have cleared funds before shipping because I'm a stranger and they cannot risk shipping to me. My reply, you, the seller are a stranger to me but I have to send you my money and trust you will ship the product and the product will be as described?

In one case involving almost $1000 I asked the seller to list the item on eBay with a buy it now price that we had agreed. I was waiting for the listing, bought it a paid with Paypal to use their buyer protection. Costs a small eBay fee but worth it for the peace of mind.

Also, a seller can simply send you a Paypal invoice... this cuts the fee in half compared to using Ebay and Paypal. In most cases you are protected by paypal anyway.. ebay has no power to do anything other than close the seller's account.
Still a Bad Deal could be a hassle.
I avoid checks... seem to have trouble getting a clear answer about clearing of checks from banks. My guess is, if something goes awry, they are still going to back charge you if the funds don't come thru.
A good example might be a check written on a good account but not by the owner of the account. A month later, the owner of the account may find out and notify the bank. Then what? Not sure.

[Andrew B.]

Originally Posted by Phantoms

I hate checks. Checks have everything an identity thief needs printed right on them. Your name, address, bank, account number, routing number, signature, etc.

A thief needs none of your personal info to rip you off, or steal from you.


I hope I don't jink the good luck I have had with personal checks by saying this.

But in over 50 years of using personal checking I have never had it used
inappropriately, or illegally. I did have someone steal some blank checks
from the back portion my checkbook, and write some checks on my
account. The bank reimbursed my funds the same day I reported the
discrepancy, including the overdrawn fees that had came about. The police
snagged him a few weeks later, and he went to jail. Forgery was one of several charges.

I have had one incident of a stop payment on a check,
and one situation where I stopped payment.
Both situations were caused by changes after the initial transaction started.


Trust but verify !

[Scot McPherson]

Due to the Internet and electronic banking, checks have become insecure...anyone with an image of your check can withdraw money from your account. Many banks will tell you Oh that's too bad, but do nothing to help.

At this point in the game, checks should go away. A debit transaction is at least two factor...what you have (card) and what you know (PIN). In Europe they've gone even a step farther and encrypted a chip that authenticates that the card is genuine issue.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

Also, a seller can simply send you a Paypal invoice... this cuts the fee in half compared to using Ebay and Paypal. In most cases you are protected by paypal anyway.. ebay has no power to do anything other than close the seller's account.
Still a Bad Deal could be a hassle.
I avoid checks... seem to have trouble getting a clear answer about clearing of checks from banks. My guess is, if something goes awry, they are still going to back charge you if the funds don't come thru.
A good example might be a check written on a good account but not by the owner of the account. A month later, the owner of the account may find out and notify the bank. Then what? Not sure.

Good point about just paying with Paypal without eBay. Since this was several years ago I can't remember now why we didn't do that. Could be I just wasn't aware of the option at that time.

I usually prefer payment option besides personal checks. Probably write no more than 2-3 a year. A few months ago I sold something to someone I met on the forum and he paid me with a check. A few weeks later my bank came back to me and said the account was closed. I had actually met the guy, very nice cruiser and could not believe there was a problem with his account. I had his number and called to ask if there was a problem or change in his account. No he said everything is fine. Finally figured out my bank had entered his account number incorrectly so his bank refused payment. My bank apologized and credited all the fees back so it worked out but it was a bit embarrassing for me.

[Andrew B.]

Thanks for the valid points, and tip skipmac

Originally Posted by skipmac

Hi Andrew,

Very good suggestions but a couple of comments.

I agree that US $100 bills are often counterfeited but from my admittedly limited experience, counterfeit bills are pretty easily detected, especially on the new bills. Look close and you can feel the paper isn't right, the watermark isn't present or isn't clear, security strip missing or drawn in instead of part of the bill. What you say is more true than not, but there has been, and is
hard to detect counterfeit bills getting into circulation all to often. A lot of banks have up to three ways they use to check larger bills, and even a $20 bill if there has been a recent rash of them. Marker pens, visual, and a small scanner will be used if there have been reports of better counterfeit being out. On the other hand just a few days back there was a local report of $100 bills so bad they were bleeding color from one of the corners. A local store clerk took one for a $5 purchase giving $95 of good money in change.
Doesn't inspire confidence in ones employees, does it.

In a couple of situations I have objected to a seller insisting on verification of my honesty and funds. Specifically when buying something online or from an ad posted somewhere out of my area. I have had sellers insist they must have cleared funds before shipping because I'm a stranger and they cannot risk shipping to me. My reply, you, the seller are a stranger to me but I have to send you my money and trust you will ship the product and the product will be as described? Again very valid points. I bought a caddy off ebay out of NJ, and had it shipped believing ebay, and carfax would be there if there was a problem. Bad move !! I got ripped off for thousands, learned that ebay could care less, and carfax is a joke. Using a network of contacts I did manage to get the dealer shut down. I am sure they managed to reopen using another business name. I mostly fault myself for this situation. First and lat vehicle I will buy sight unseen ! I lucked out and was able to trade the POS caddy and another car in on a newer caddy, and actually ended up with a decent deal in the long run. Driving a VW GTI now. Caddies are way overrated IMHO.

In one case involving almost $1000 I asked the seller to list the item on eBay with a buy it now price that we had agreed. I was waiting for the listing, bought it a paid with Paypal to use their buyer protection. Costs a small eBay fee but worth it for the peace of mind. Thanks for this. A good way to do a deal when one just can't do it face to face. Hell face to face isn't all the secure these days...lol

In spite of the thieves, scammers, crooks, etc. I still believe that most
people are honest, and all in all good people. And the bad folks take full
advantage of that humanistic belief.

[Andrew B.]

Originally Posted by Scot McPherson

Due to the Internet and electronic banking, checks have become insecure...anyone with an image of your check can withdraw money from your account. Many banks will tell you Oh that's too bad, but do nothing to help. Then find, and change to a bank that will. Mine would refund any personal funds obtained illegally.
How about the card readers that are being used in ATMs to steal your account #, and empty your account(s)? It happens everyday. A paper image(copy) of a check is worthless at my bank, and electronic images of paper checks transferring funds for bill paying purposes,etc. use a almost bullet proof security system. The internet is where the money is, and where the better thieves congregate. Being retired now I rarely write more than ten checks a month. I would worry more about a payment toward a CC or other account due being lost in the mail, than some thief using the info from a check. Then again lets hope a new group of hackers don't decide to
play hell with the electronic/internet monetary system. I'm just a old country boy that's not going to put all my eggs in one basket.


At this point in the game, checks should go away.( Some of us still want to attempt to maintain at least the illusion of personal privacy. Checks bolster my illusion far more than the internet does.) A debit transaction is at least two factor...what you have (card) and what you know (PIN). In Europe they've gone even a step farther and encrypted a chip that authenticates that the card is genuine issue.

One can appreciate the efforts made in stopping, and catching the bad guys. It's a sad, but true fact of life that dishonest people will always find some way to take advantage of the honest people.

Seller beware, buyer beware !

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by Andrew B.

In spite of the thieves, scammers, crooks, etc. I still believe that most people are honest, and all in all good people. And the bad folks take full advantage of that humanistic belief.

Maybe I'm gullible but I feel the same. And yes I've heard of problems buying something face to face so even then you gotta be careful.

[NZGrant]

Bitcoin transactions can't be reversed



Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Andrew B.

Trust but verify!

Exactly.

To illustrate, when my wife and I get together with my parents we often play pinochle. Sitting there at the table with them, I am in the company of the only three people in the world that I trust absolutely and unconditionally. I know--with complete certainty--that I could trust any one of them, quite literally, with my life.

But you know what? When it's my turn, I still cut the cards. Why? Not because I don't trust them, but because that's the way it's done. And it doesn't offend any of them, because they know that that's the way it's done.

In any business deal where the other party becomes offended because you want to do the sort of due diligence that is called for--where they ask "don't you trust me?"--the best thing to do is DO NOT TRUST THEM!

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by Andrew B.

Really nothing much wrong with the US checking system if used properly.

I'm 46. I have never written a check in my entire life. I have last seen a check somewhere in the late 80ies. I find it odd that in some parts of the world they are still used.
Here if you buy something on an on a local on-line site (like the here popular ricardo.ch) the payment gets processed through that site, which will keep it in escrow until the buyer signals that the goods have been accepted in good order.
The same thing is done whenever you buy something substantial, like a house or a boat. Some third party keeps it in escrow.
There's thus never a need for checks, and they have basically disappeared in Europe.