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Old 19-03-2015, 20:46   #61
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Re: 1996 42' Lavranos Pelican Cat Ketch - $49,900

A few more questions
  • I note Union Jack. British title? Customs paid to be in US?
  • Chart table the small counter beneath the electrical panel?
  • From pictures, I surmise head is port aft, with tub under the cockpit.Yes?
  • Is this a boat you own, or are brokering? Why selling?
  • How many sails? how old? what kind of reefing?
  • windlass? manual anchor retrieval? Anchors - type? chain rode, or line?
  • built to class? ABS? Lloyds? or some other?
  • survey available? preferably done for a buyer?
  • any known problems other than drive unit for autopilot?
Thanks,
Jack
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Old 19-03-2015, 22:02   #62
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Re: 1996 42' Lavranos Pelican Cat Ketch - $49,900

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Rogala View Post
Greetings again!
For sale is a 1996 42.7ft Lavranos Cat Ketch ocean voyaging sailboat.
Price is $49,900. Located currently in Baltimore, MD

This boat is a rugged bluewater cruiser built in South Africa. The naval architect was Angelo Lavranos. Built by K&S fiberglass in South Africa in 1996.
This boat is loaded with all ocean voyaging equipment like SSB, Rutland Wind Generator, 5 solar panels on a stainless tube arch, aries windvane self-steering, watermaker, radar, chartplotter, Balmar high output alternator, new batterys, electronic charts for entire pacific basin from the marqueses to south pacific to New Guini, Philippines, vietnam, china, taiwan and japan. Includes electronic charts for entire US, Bahamas, and Hawaii also. There is a dinghy and 4 hp outboard included.
The design was conceived through a conglomeration of two naval architects which attempted to create the perfect cruising sailboat. They chose a cat ketch rig for simplicity, safety and ease of use, outboard rudder for safety (no rudder shaft hole in the bottom of the boat that could fracture) and simplicity, long fin keel as a compromise of lateral stability and easy maneuverability, cockpit drains that drain out the transom ( no hoses ), bulwarks around the entire perimeter of the hull which gives a good foothold in bad weather, companionway entrance at at seat level which is 16" off the cockpit floor to prevent water from entering the boat if the boat gets pooped, etc, etc.
To get a bluewater boat with all the expensive voyaging equipment for a low price is not an easy task to find, but here is one available now. When I was planning my pacific crossing, I had a difficult time finding a boat that could do the job, was heavily equipt for the task and was inexpensive. Here is your change to find one.
Technical details available upon request.
Happy voyaging!
Ron
Hi Jack.
When I bought the boat it was documented in Canada. I had to import it into the USA to get it US documented. Import duty has been paid and Canadian registry released. That's been finished.

Yes there is a small chart table by the electrical panel. With a chart plotter and GPS, not much need for it anymore.

I own the boat. Was planning a Pacific crossing but now I am involved in developing a beach resort. No time for a boat.

Two sails. There might be a spinnaker. I have to check under the v berth.
The two mainsails are very heavy, triple stitched and in great shape. Fully battened with lazy jacks.
Not sure of the age but far from needing replacement. Three reefs in each sail.

No, head is forward across from the dressing area.
On the port side down the companionway is the galley. Stbd side has the aft stateroom. Stateroom wall was removed to open up the boat further. Can be put back in but I like more roominess.

There are 3-4 anchors. I think car and Bruce. Another car in cockpit locker. All chain Rhode. Electric windlass. Nice one.

Built to Lloyd's specs but not supervised.

No survey available. Seller before me had a survey two years before I bought it. My broker told me there were no issues worth mentioning.

Known problems....the refrigeration condenser sheet metal in the frig compartment was pierced with something sharp so it lost refrigerant and needs brazing and recharged. Need new autopilot drive unit. That's it. Oh, mainsail covers need new zippers. That's it. Rest is cosmetic. Floor needs refinishing.
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Old 19-03-2015, 22:04   #63
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Re: 1996 42' Lavranos Pelican Cat Ketch - $49,900

CQR and Bruce anchors. Not Car. Mistyped.
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Old 20-03-2015, 09:21   #64
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Re: Now here is a georgeous bluewater boat for $49k

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
50' sailing yacht, in drydock, installing a bilge pump, drilled the first hole through the inner skin, and water shot up ~2'! Cored hull.
Well. look on the bright side. The compromised outer hull didn't let her sink because of the inner hull.
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Old 20-03-2015, 10:01   #65
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Re: Now here is a georgeous bluewater boat for $49k

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randyonr3 View Post
Now this is what bothers me about posts as yours.. to compare the freedom "cat/Ketch" in speed to other boats. if you are comparing a "Cat/ketch" in a freedom to a "Marconi" freedom, while thats just fine and I respect that.
But when you compare other boats in the mix, you are out in Left field..
In sizing your boat to mine, its withing 1 foot waterline of my boat and your weight is 20,000 lbs where mine states 18738, and as an owners version, a Cruiser, I know she pushes the up-side of 24,000 lbs.. I actually weigh-in heaver and withing a foot in length.. but you'll post that your boat is faster than a FIRST 42..
You are comparing apples to oranges in reguards to boats and designs. and even if you push it and say "old" style, the FIRST 42 is over 30 years old..
even in Racing, we all know its the numbers that win a race and not the boats.. The slower boats rate higher in numbers , thus allowing more room for error.

I'm not singleing out your boat per-say , but only to bring forth the issue that when talking speed, you can only compare your boat to another just like yours with a different rig..
Hi,
Your first 42 is basically designed as a cruiser/racer. Very sleek and more designed as a racer with cruise accommodations. Not sure that is a fair comparison with its high aspect sailplan. However, I can quote what I read yesterday:

What kind of performance can be expected?
Generally speaking, a properly designed cat ketch yacht will sail as fast if not faster than other rigs of comparable size overall. Off the wind, it will easily out-perform them because the sail's shape and efficiency remain constant and is unhindered by standing rigging-thereby increasing efficiency. To windward, it boasts the advantage of reduced weight and windage aloft, constant camber and slot effect, plus unparalleled tacking ability.

The wishbone boom is, again, an idea from the early days of cat ketch rigged vessel. It simply acts as a force arm to provides the benefits of both boom and vang-without the usual clutter of winch, lines, battens, hardware, etc. This boom sets at approximately a 30-degree angle to the sail's luff and creates force vectors that counterbalance those created by the sail, thereby allowing a regular (soft type) sail to be set with a draft and camber similar to that obtained by vang, equipment and crew required with a straight boom and full battened sails. Because it operates on a free-standing mast, it can be freely rotated 180 deg. about the spar without changing sail shape. That is why cat ketch rigged boats sail so well off-wind: the wishbone boom maintains a near perfect airfoil shape on all points of sail.

Interesting.
Cheers
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Old 20-03-2015, 10:24   #66
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Re: Now here is a georgeous bluewater boat for $49k

Ronald,

What follows is in a friendly tone, and simply written to suggest some ways to focus and further this discussion on the design of the boat in this thread, so it does not become a "sales" thread (more appropriate for the Classifieds forum here).

As I see it, this thread/discussion should be focused on the features and design of a boat (whether that boat is for sale now or not). Those features or characteristics of that boat design are what interest me here, as part of a discussion of an uncommon boat design.

__________________

Regarding some of your earlier posts above:

I appreciate the points you added (text you posted or copied to this thread) about the characteristics of a Cat-Ketch and the aspects of a Wishbone Boom rig on such boats. I think Wishbone Boom Rigs are so rare that they are often misunderstood or simply most sailors don't have any experience with them or know why they are designed that way (or possible benefits of that design).

But, isn't your boat a boat without a wishbone rig? Or, doesn't your boat have a more typical "Gooseneck + Straight Boom" on it?

Posting a photo that shows the boom on your boat should clear that up, or post it in the classified listing in the Classifieds forum. I suggest this, so people do not mistake your boat as having something it might not have (i.e. a Wishbone Boom Rig). You may want to make that clear in your Classifieds post too, as I don't recall seeing it clearly mentioned. If it already is, then I may have overlooked it.
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Old 20-03-2015, 10:28   #67
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Re: Now here is a georgeous bluewater boat for $49k

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Rogala View Post
Hi,
Your first 42 is basically designed as a cruiser/racer. Very sleek and more designed as a racer with cruise accommodations. Not sure that is a fair comparison with its high aspect sailplan. However, I can quote what I read yesterday:

What kind of performance can be expected?
Generally speaking, a properly designed cat ketch yacht will sail as fast if not faster than other rigs of comparable size overall. Off the wind, it will easily out-perform them because the sail's shape and efficiency remain constant and is unhindered by standing rigging-thereby increasing efficiency. To windward, it boasts the advantage of reduced weight and windage aloft, constant camber and slot effect, plus unparalleled tacking ability.

The wishbone boom is, again, an idea from the early days of cat ketch rigged vessel. It simply acts as a force arm to provides the benefits of both boom and vang-without the usual clutter of winch, lines, battens, hardware, etc. This boom sets at approximately a 30-degree angle to the sail's luff and creates force vectors that counterbalance those created by the sail, thereby allowing a regular (soft type) sail to be set with a draft and camber similar to that obtained by vang, equipment and crew required with a straight boom and full battened sails. Because it operates on a free-standing mast, it can be freely rotated 180 deg. about the spar without changing sail shape. That is why cat ketch rigged boats sail so well off-wind: the wishbone boom maintains a near perfect airfoil shape on all points of sail.

Interesting.
Cheers
You are all over the board with this one...........

In Post 31, you stated the Cat/Ketch was a faster boat and even to the extent of stating waterline and speed.
In Post 41, you defined it as cruising boat, changing your view..
In Post 42, you modified it again saying a standard boat with a Marconi Rig
And now in this post, you state what you read and in no place do I see the Cat/Ketch being a FASTER BOAT and only being a FASTER RIG..

If you are going to jump in the puddle with the rest of us and start quoting what is and what is not, I would suggest you get your **** together befor you do..
All you are saying is that A Cat/Ketch rig on a Freedom is Faster than a Marconi Rig on a Freedom.. and this is something I've said from the start...

Its one thing to make a false statement but entirely different to "back-peddle" to cover you tail..
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Old 20-03-2015, 10:34   #68
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Re: Now here is a georgeous bluewater boat for $49k

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
After so many balsa cored hulls turned up with core problems, most boat builders switched over to various foams, or no core at all. This is ancient history. Though balsa continued to find use in decks (but still caused problems, just not as severe as hull problems).
Hello. Not sure how you got that info, but I always see deck delamination problems and almost never see hull problems. I saw one hull problem about 30 years ago on a tartan ten one-desighn race boat. I've owned about 25 boats over the years but only encountered delam deck problems... Not hull delam problems.
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Old 20-03-2015, 10:38   #69
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Re: Now here is a georgeous bluewater boat for $49k

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
After so many balsa cored hulls turned up with core problems, most boat builders switched over to various foams, or no core at all. This is ancient history. Though balsa continued to find use in decks (but still caused problems, just not as severe as hull problems).
Then I have heard that foams can pulverize.....not sure I like that route either. Of course best for durability is solid glass (by far) but then you have the weight problem and coldness issue of uninsulated solid glass. Pick your poison.
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Old 20-03-2015, 10:43   #70
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Re: Now here is a georgeous bluewater boat for $49k

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terra Nova View Post
50' sailing yacht, in drydock, installing a bilge pump, drilled the first hole through the inner skin, and water shot up ~2'! Cored hull.
Wow, struck water! The water must have come in through as unsealed thru hull where the calking dried and broke down. I hear that's a big problem in Florida. Being out of the water dries out the calk and turns it brittle. I image if the boat builder didn't seal the core material, then water could cone in.
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Old 20-03-2015, 10:54   #71
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Re: Now here is a georgeous bluewater boat for $49k

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
Ronald,

What follows is in a friendly tone, and simply written to suggest some ways to focus and further this discussion on the design of the boat in this thread, so it does not become a "sales" thread (more appropriate for the Classifieds forum here).

As I see it, this thread/discussion should be focused on the features and design of a boat (whether that boat is for sale now or not). Those features or characteristics of that boat design are what interest me here, as part of a discussion of an uncommon boat design.

__________________

Regarding some of your earlier posts above:

I appreciate the points you added (text you posted or copied to this thread) about the characteristics of a Cat-Ketch and the aspects of a Wishbone Boom rig on such boats. I think Wishbone Boom Rigs are so rare that they are often misunderstood or simply most sailors don't have any experience with them or know why they are designed that way (or possible benefits of that design).

But, isn't your boat a boat without a wishbone rig? Or, doesn't your boat have a more typical "Gooseneck + Straight Boom" on it?

Posting a photo that shows the boom on your boat should clear that up, or post it in the classified listing in the Classifieds forum. I suggest this, so people do not mistake your boat as having something it might not have (i.e. a Wishbone Boom Rig). You may want to make that clear in your Classifieds post too, as I don't recall seeing it clearly mentioned. If it already is, then I may have overlooked it.
Hello.
Yes, I am trying not to talk too much about my boat as we just discuss cat ketches in general. But correct, my boat has the standard boom and tabernacle setup and not a wishbone boom. So, some of that does not apply to my boat. However, the booms can be banged steadying the clew which achieves almost the same thing. And because of no standing riggig in the way, the sails can be let out much further without distroying the airfoil shape without getting the side stay distorting the sail. I see many things that detract from offwind performance on traditional sloop rigged boats.
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Old 20-03-2015, 10:54   #72
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Re: Now here is a georgeous bluewater boat for $49k

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randyonr3 View Post
You are all over the board with this one...........

In Post 31, you stated the Cat/Ketch was a faster boat and even to the extent of stating waterline and speed.
In Post 41, you defined it as cruising boat, changing your view..
In Post 42, you modified it again saying a standard boat with a Marconi Rig
And now in this post, you state what you read and in no place do I see the Cat/Ketch being a FASTER BOAT and only being a FASTER RIG..

If you are going to jump in the puddle with the rest of us and start quoting what is and what is not, I would suggest you get your **** together befor you do..
All you are saying is that A Cat/Ketch rig on a Freedom is Faster than a Marconi Rig on a Freedom.. and this is something I've said from the start...

Its one thing to make a false statement but entirely different to "back-peddle" to cover you tail..
Lighten up. It is only a thread. Don't assault his intentions.
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Old 20-03-2015, 11:07   #73
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Re: Now here is a georgeous bluewater boat for $49k

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randyonr3 View Post
You are all over the board with this one...........

In Post 31, you stated the Cat/Ketch was a faster boat and even to the extent of stating waterline and speed.
In Post 41, you defined it as cruising boat, changing your view..
In Post 42, you modified it again saying a standard boat with a Marconi Rig
And now in this post, you state what you read and in no place do I see the Cat/Ketch being a FASTER BOAT and only being a FASTER RIG..

If you are going to jump in the puddle with the rest of us and start quoting what is and what is not, I would suggest you get your **** together befor you do..
All you are saying is that A Cat/Ketch rig on a Freedom is Faster than a Marconi Rig on a Freedom.. and this is something I've said from the start...

Its one thing to make a false statement but entirely different to "back-peddle" to cover you tail..
I'm not doing any back-peddling as I am aware of.
I don't agree with any of your comments except the last one. The previous comments don't make any sense to me. Sorry I can't follow your logic.

Its the rig that has the speed...not the boat. I agree to that. I pasted some article from tanton yachts that describe why the rig is faster offwind.
Cheers
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Old 20-03-2015, 11:25   #74
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Re: Now here is a georgeous bluewater boat for $49k

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Originally Posted by Ronald Rogala View Post
Cat ketches are faster offwind, running and reaching than standard boats, .
I guess I didnt read this correct then.............
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Old 20-03-2015, 11:30   #75
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Re: Now here is a georgeous bluewater boat for $49k

Quote:
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As far as speed goes, I would rule out any kind lightweight race boat and would compare cruising boats only.
And I guess I read this one wrong also
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