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Old 19-04-2012, 15:49   #31
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Re: 40-50 Foot Cat - Somewhat Unorthodox Approach

What worked for me was to survey the boat, either personally, or using a good surveyor, and come up with a cash down payment that you would be comfortable with if the boat had some unusual hidden flaw. Then make an offer considering the actual percieved value of the boat as if it had no hidden flaws. Offer to pay the seller a regular payment for the difference over a short time (mine was 3 years). The seller will get a substantial payment up front and a regular monthly payment afterwards. If the boat comes up with some undisclosed problem, you have a bargaining position. The legality is that you and he sign a document that encourages both to be honest and realistic.
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Old 19-04-2012, 16:20   #32
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Re: 40-50 Foot Cat - Somewhat Unorthodox Approach

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tropic Cat View Post
Boat shoppers are just so interesting to watch. In this case you are way...way..behind the internet / technology curve. Folks who aren't listing with a broker are either putting their boat for sale on their own web site or selling on a catamaran for sale by owner website. In either case, catamarans are selling every day.

You seem to think you're special? You left out the reason the catamaran marketplace can't get along without you?

Take some advice, go find a boat offered for sale by owner. Don't insult the owners by offering substantially below asking price and make sure you don't spend the $15K per year maintenance kitty the boat will require..
I have to agree with Tropic Cat on not insulting owners. Comments like ...

Quote:
If they are in the mindset of really wanting to sell (instead of just putting out an unrealistic number and hoping that a Saudi prince will take a fancy to their boat), this gives the seller an opportunity to put out their best price to see if it matches with how I would value the boat
can certainly be considered insulting or peg you as just another "bottom feeder". Best to avoid that kind of language.
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Old 19-04-2012, 18:11   #33
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Re: 40-50 Foot Cat - Somewhat Unorthodox Approach

If they are in the mindset of really wanting to sell (instead of just putting out an unrealistic number and hoping that a Saudi prince will take a fancy to their boat), this gives the seller an opportunity to put out their best price to see if it matches with how I would value the boat


$10,000 says you'll still offer a lower amount.
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Old 19-04-2012, 18:28   #34
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$15,000.........
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Old 19-04-2012, 18:59   #35
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Re: 40-50 Foot Cat - Somewhat Unorthodox Approach

When it comes to buying and selling anything, there are no hard and fast rules since everyone has a different opinion of just what's fair game and what's out of bounds. You just never know how how anyone is going to react, neither the buyer nor the seller. Below is an email exchange between a potential buyer and I for a cheapy trolling motor I was selling last year. It was obvious from first contact with the guy that he was going to try to browbeat me into giving it to him at the price he wanted, but instead of becoming "offended" I instead tried to kill him with kindness and THAT seemed to offend him. The email exchange is in reverse order, so you have to read from the bottom up to make sense of it. My responses are in black and his are in red. He kept waiting for me to get defensive to his name calling and then potentially consider selling to him at the price he wanted. I had no interest in selling to him at that price and it really was no big deal. But it illustrates just how much differently buyers and sellers can see a potential sale. There is no need for it to ever be personal. Both parties can always say yea or no to any potential deal. No harm, no foul.

I sold the motor the next day for my full asking price.

Quote:
Whatever *******. Have a good night

--- On Tue, 3/29/11, <aussiesuede@> wrote:

From: <aussiesuede@>
Subject: Re:
To:
Date: Tuesday, March 29, 2011, 12:07 AM

I don't know what other way to explain it to you. I agree with what you"ve said. Therefore I'm likely to just give it to the neighbors kid. As you've said, $90 seems too high a price. So the choice seems to be either sell for lower, or just give it away. It's an insignificant amount of money, so it just seems smarter to get the joy of seeing the neighbors kid smile when I give it to him. Maybe I'll have him wash my car?



From: gary smitty <labluver63@yahoo.com>
To: <aussiesuede@>
Sent: Mon, March 28, 2011 11:58:15 PM
Subject: Re:

I have sold alot of them for a living and you will be luicky to get $75.0.New online $129.00.Opening day is next month

--- On Mon, 3/28/11, <aussiesuede@> wrote:

From: <aussiesuede@>
Subject: Re:
To:
Date: Monday, March 28, 2011, 11:52 PM

I was agreeing with you. That's why it just seems like a better idea to give it to the neighbors kid. The kid is about to finish 6th grade & loves boating. I'm sure he'll be estatic to get the motor. I originally thought $90 was a good price, but obviously I was wrong. So might as well see a good kid get a big smile!





From:
To: <aussiesuede@>
Sent: Mon, March 28, 2011 11:42:41 PM
Subject: Re:

Did I say anything abourt giving I said over priced


--- On Mon, 3/28/11, <aussiesuede@> wrote:

From: <aussiesuede@>
Subject: Re:
To:
Date: Monday, March 28, 2011, 11:39 PM

Yep, I agree. Think I'm just gonna take down the ad and give the motor to the neighbors kid so he can put about.

Congrats again on your much better deal!





From:
To: <aussiesuede@>
Sent: Mon, March 28, 2011 11:29:19 PM
Subject: Re:

over priced on your **** that is why it is still posted and not selling

--- On Mon, 3/28/11, <aussiesuede@> wrote:

From:
Subject: Re:
To:
Date: Monday, March 28, 2011, 11:22 PM


Always awesome to find a great deal! Congrats!!





From:
To: sale-mxt3a-2286266567@craigslist.org
Sent: Mon, March 28, 2011 11:15:35 PM
Subject:

** CRAIGSLIST ADVISORY --- AVOID SCAMS BY DEALING LOCALLY
** Avoid: wiring money, cross-border deals, work-at-home
** Beware: cashier checks, money orders, escrow, shipping
** More Info: craigslist | about > scams


$30.00 more got a new one get real lucky to get $75.00 for that motor

this message was remailed to you via: sale-mxt3a-2286266567@craigslist.org
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Old 19-04-2012, 19:01   #36
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$20,000........
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Old 19-04-2012, 19:29   #37
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Re: 40-50 Foot Cat - Somewhat Unorthodox Approach

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussiesuede View Post
When it comes to buying and selling anything, there are no hard and fast rules since everyone has a different opinion of just what's fair game and what's out of bounds. You just never know how how anyone is going to react, neither the buyer nor the seller. Below is an email exchange between a potential buyer and I for a cheapy trolling motor I was selling last year. It was obvious from first contact with the guy that he was going to try to browbeat me into giving it to him at the price he wanted, but instead of becoming "offended" I instead tried to kill him with kindness and THAT seemed to offend him. The email exchange is in reverse order, so you have to read from the bottom up to make sense of it. My responses are in black and his are in red. He kept waiting for me to get defensive to his name calling and then potentially consider selling to him at the price he wanted. I had no interest in selling to him at that price and it really was no big deal. But it illustrates just how much differently buyers and sellers can see a potential sale. There is no need for it to ever be personal. Both parties can always say yea or no to any potential deal. No harm, no foul.

I sold the motor the next day for my full asking price.
Agree with you 110%. The guy was an ******* and you took the high road. Good for you. My only point was that people do take things personally and do you want to risk offending someone by statements like ...." putting out an unrealistic number and hoping that a Saudi prince will take a fancy to their boat.."


So, I agree don't take things personally but at the same time be careful what you say. I wonder if the OP would make the same comment to a seller in person? I doubt it.
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Old 19-04-2012, 19:40   #38
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Re: 40-50 Foot Cat - Somewhat Unorthodox Approach

$50,000!

Bottomfeeder.
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Old 19-04-2012, 19:53   #39
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Interesting concept but I just dont know how it works out.

You have told us and by extension the whole internet that you have $325 to spend. If my boat were listed at $350 I might send you an email saying $325 and no negotiating but my risk is that you take my "new" price as the start point. BTW your low end has become meaningless to me as a seller. That's how it really works.

I may have a target price of $325 in mind but $350 is not just stuffing. That is partly a contingency for the survey. Stuff I live with (a few blisters, older batteries, an ageing mainsail) may be an issue to a buyer or the survey may actually come up with something that needs fixing. I either fix it and hold my price or drop price and you fix it.

You are making an assumption that the unknowns are all on the buyers side. Not true and that is why the sellers price needs some elasticity.

As a seller I use the tried and true method. Value my boat fairly and post my price. If survey turns up nothing I expect to get asking price. Motivations for lowering price are predominantly defects and my urgency to sell. If the urgency rises I would change the posted asking price.

I have no doubt you are a serious buyer. The assumption that everyone has "much lower" real price is flawed IMO. The final point is that regardless of asking price I would instruct my broker to pass along all offers no matter how ridiculous. Why would I want to decrease the size of my net. Sometimes a guy offers low but doesn't know how much I can convince him to spend until I meet him. College fund? You don't need no stinking college fund. Take your kid to sea, he'll learn life lessons that cant be bought in a college...
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Old 20-04-2012, 01:36   #40
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Re: 40-50 Foot Cat - Somewhat Unorthodox Approach

There is a fine line between insulting a Vendor (or buyer!) and giving them a reality check - the problem occurs as that line differs for everyone, even before getting into differing cultural norms and business practices.

As folks may have already twigged, I have a fairly thick skin. The plus is that hard to insult me - the downside is that I sometimes forget that some others do require a tad more sugarcoating to a message than I can be bothered to give.

In the case of Ex-Calif's example - if you felt your boat was genuinely worth $350k (and expect a survey not to reveal anything material) then I would still get in contact with OP to set out my case (including that your price was firm - subject to any material survey defects)....despite it being over the intended budget. It's only an e-mail and 10 minutes of time - odds are that won't set off a deal, but a chance that it could......if you can sell a week earlier, let alone a month - probably the most money will ever make for 10 minutes of "work".

Whilst Ex-Calif's approach (which matches my own) makes sense - a buyer has to deal with a market where that approach is in a minority. More likely a number is plucked out of little more than thin air (calculated by self or a Broker using wishful thinking + a bit more) in the expectation that they can later simply take the best price on offer. The reality being that you attract mainly those who are expecting the premium price to reflect perfection, and if (when?!) that is not the case they are dissapointed and likely won't be buying - and in the meantime you have put off those looking for a boat in the exactly the same condition as yours (good but not showroom fresh) from even bothering to get in contact (boat perceived to be too good and / or Vendor perceived to be too much like hard work).....all simply from over asking (not to say that shouldn't leave a bit of wiggle room in the price, but IMO 5 or 10% max).

Sometimes selling stuff does require some effort. Even if that only involves ensuring your Broker gets off backside - at least now and again!

Anyway, appreciate am wasting my time with many - but to be fair, not all from simple stupidity - some do have own agendas on hexing any changes from the "norm".
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Old 20-04-2012, 01:44   #41
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Re: 40-50 Foot Cat - Somewhat Unorthodox Approach

Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
....
Whilst Ex-Calif's approach (which matches my own) makes sense - a buyer has to deal with a market where that approach is in a minority.
minority? I'd be Careful tossing 'data' like this around. What boat owner do you know who doesn't have a sense of his boat's worth in the marketplace? Ex-Calif's approach also matches my own.

I alone know what needs to be done on my boat and I alone know how much upgrading was done, and what it cost. I alone can value my boat fairly and post my price. My boat's value certainly isn't plucked from thin air. If the survey turns up nothing I also expect to get my asking price.

Any bottom feeder who comes along certainly isn't going to buy any boat of mine. And I refuse to believe this view is in the minority.
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Old 20-04-2012, 02:16   #42
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Re: 40-50 Foot Cat - Somewhat Unorthodox Approach

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Originally Posted by Tropic Cat View Post
minority? I'd be Careful tossing 'data' like this around. What boat owner do you know who doesn't have a sense of his boat's worth in the marketplace? Ex-Calif's approach also matches my own.

I alone know what needs to be done on my boat and I alone know how much upgrading was done, and what it cost. I alone can value my boat fairly and post my price. My boat's value certainly isn't plucked from thin air. If the survey turns up nothing I also expect to get my asking price.

Any bottom feeder who comes along certainly isn't going to buy any boat of mine. And I refuse to believe this view is in the minority.
Although it may surprise you - your viewpoint is of genuine interest, at least to me . Always good to understand the viewpoint of those living in lalaland - I might laugh, but I will still cash the cheque .
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Old 20-04-2012, 03:14   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

Sometimes selling stuff does require some effort. Even if that only involves ensuring your Broker gets off backside - at least now and again!

Anyway, appreciate am wasting my time with many - but to be fair, not all from simple stupidity - some do have own agendas on hexing any changes from the "norm".
I think buying and selling requires effort. As a seller you need to stand out from the crowd. That means not only understanding your boats value but also undeerstanding the competition you are up against. And if some guys posts on a forum he is looking for a boat like mine, you are right, a ten minute email is easy.

As a buyer you need to kiss a lot of frogs. You also have to understand the market, be ready to pull the trigger and have a reasonable undderstanding of what you will accept and not accept in terms of boat condition. As someone said it is fairly unreasonable to expect perfection from a 30 y/o boat as well as a rock bottom price. But of course they are out there...
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Old 20-04-2012, 07:58   #44
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Re: 40-50 Foot Cat - Somewhat Unorthodox Approach

Wow, I am so sick of the word Bottomfeeder, If I wanna offer you $50,000 for your $200,000 boat thats my right. If you need the money you'll take it. Thats all there is to it. Tropic cat seems all bent outta shape over nothing. Or maybe his site sucks and can't sell boats at his inflated bogus prices. I think the OP has a great plan. Any boat is only worth what someone will pay you for it. If you hold out for mr. money bags, good for you. If you need to sell quick for whatever reason, tough sh#t. There are NO RULES, NOT EVEN ONE. There are so many issues here at CF where people take some moral stance. Morals are the tools of tyrants.
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Old 20-04-2012, 08:25   #45
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Re: 40-50 Foot Cat - Somewhat Unorthodox Approach

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Originally Posted by RabidRabbit View Post
Wow, I am so sick of the word Bottomfeeder, If I wanna offer you $50,000 for your $200,000 boat thats my right.
SNIP
+1

I have been looking at lots of listings and some prices do seem a little strange to me. What a lot of sellers don't seem to grasp is there is only a very small pool of buyers who have the ability to write a five or six figure check and that qualifying for a loan is much harder now than anytime I can recall in quite some time.

Most of us in the US have seen drastic drops in the value of our homes and stocks and there does not seem to be justification for an economic recovery. I have seen lots of boats listed, then re-listed multiple times with prices bouncing around in a seemingly random manner.

Bottom line is that buyers are in the drivers seat and if a seller does not realize this they are in trouble.
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