For Sale: 36' Steel Sailboat, Cape Horn Vet

[DMAT]

Does your boat have a holding tank, or the capacity to install one?
Also, please describe the type of stuffing box / shaft seal .
(oh yes, I'm finally in) D

[pacifica]

I have a holding tank but I have never installed it. It is available.
The stuffing box is conventional with packing, but there is a grease nipple and grease gun to inject grease between stuffing box and cutless bearing.

[pacifica]

There's been lots of questions and interest in my boat, and a few visits, but nobody has pulled out their checkbook yet.

Not too surprising. It is not the kind of boat that appeals to someone whose first concern is the location or even existence of the hot shower ( despite that, we have always maintained a state of personal hygiene aboard that would make us acceptable in most company, without too much trouble) .

This is the kind of boat that will get you into 'interesting' places, and out of difficult situations offshore or coastal.

I've had lots of questions about galley and toilet equipment but none about how the boat handles in a full gale offshore under series drogue on the 3rd day after 2 major windshifts? or how she goes in less than 10 knots of wind offshore? Or how do you decide if you can put the boat on a certain beach or get into a tidal lagoon. Or how does deck work feel offshore in bad weather on this boat? Or can you get off a lee shore under sail alone?, or do a fresh tradewind close reach offshore? Or what would happen if you hit some floating log (or worse), at night, underway?
These were the primary concerns when we built the boat, and the niceties of a comfortable life aboard were secondary. We thought a lot about stuff that many people 'don't want to think about'.

These are not issues that can be dealt with in a weekend after a visit to the chandlery.

We thought a lot about building a steel boat when we arrived in Fiji in 1990 on our glass boat from NZ with our 1 year old son aboard; but our Swiss friends on 'Natchez', a 40' glass boat , just disappeared enroute. What happened to them? Container collision? Run down by a ship? Who knows? That gave us pause, and changed our plans.

"It doesn't have to be fun ,to be fun" is a motto that was often heard on our boat. Our favorite cruising friends had posted in their cabin "we pressed on, taking fresh trouble for granted".
We wanted to go to difficult places, likely in bad weather, and we did. And we came back completely unscathed and unscared (afterwards).

But it is much more difficult to assess a boat like this than a 'benehunterina'. It is not like a McDonald's burger where you know exactly what you are getting sight unseen (easy to finish that thought). That makes it difficult for both parties.

Holding tanks are important, as are hot showers and autopilots. They are important if you are trying to decide between two similarly equipped production boats. They are also easy to install (or remove) anytime on any boat, after a visit to the chandlery.

It's the wrong time of year to sell a boat, it's a buyer's market, the economy is flat, etc etc.

The mountains here are getting snow, ski touring plans are being made. The larches are shedding their needles.

Before I go skiing here on the Island or in the Kootenays I'm going to replace the exhaust pipe on the Silas Crosby, and repaint under the aft berth where the leaking exhaust soot has sullied the woodwork.
I've been waiting for someone to step up and do this dirty job for me but that hasn't happened (ha ha) so I'll do it myself, as always.
Hopefully the engine won't be un-runnable for more than a week or two, because of the disconnected exhaust.


I'm sure that there is someone out there who is just dying to get away and have a big adventure that will change their life, for the good (and not have the rudder fall off, for example). And fulfill a dream or two, as we did, hugely.
Unfortunately, someone who is prepared to take the risk and actually leave soon on a big adventure in a small boat is also very unlikely to be loaded with money. There is a price to pay for going cruising at a healthy age.

Frugality.

My job is to make this boat irresistible. Stir up the romance, but be practical.

Therefore I am going to start by reducing the price to $63,000 C.
Our operators are waiting.

[cybber]

Hi.
I have been trying mail to you on svsilascrosby@gmail.com , but I dont get any respons.
Have you got my mail?

/Benny

[Mirar]

Hi Steve, It is funny isn't, people for years have been gobbling up everything that the Hiscocks ,the Pardey's and their ilk have written about cruising on small simple boats, some not as tough as Silas Crosby by far. Most would not want to actually go out in such a vessel. The trouble is, I think, that most of us have become soft and really only want a "comfortable" adventure. I think of the thousands of offshore miles I did in my old wooden Herrshoff, seeing it grow amenities steadily over the years. All they did was add to the level of complication/work involved in attaining the same goal of seeing the world and all it has to offer. I am hoping I can finish off this new alloy tub with the same philosophy that you adopted with your tough ship. Considering you are offering SC for the price of my rig certainly gives great perspective. Good luck!
Greg Janes

[pacifica]

Originally Posted by cybber

Hi.
I have been trying mail to you on svsilascrosby@gmail.com , but I dont get any respons.
Have you got my mail?

/Benny

Benny, yes ,I got your email and accidentally deleted it and couldn't remember the details. Sorry. Try that same email again now.

[pacifica]

Greg, thanks for your response to my little diatribe. Gotta be careful or I'll scare people away. We could go on and on about it, right?

[U W Frog]

Hi Steve,
Yes, I would love to hear more about how the boat handles in a full gale offshore under series drogue on the 3rd day after 2 major windshifts? or how she goes in less than 10 knots of wind offshore? Or how do you decide if you can put the boat on a certain beach or get into a tidal lagoon. Or how does deck work feel offshore in bad weather on this boat? Or can you get off a lee shore under sail alone?, or do a fresh tradewind close reach offshore?
And just how close to the wind can you sail in light air as well as storm conditions? or how you can decide to leave the boat securely on the hard after having grounded it by the tide somewhere safe?
Please describe in detail more about that dry exhaust system you have and are redoing. Are you welding in Schedule 80 pipe with a high loop somewhere and where is that? What meta are you using for both the hard pipe as well as the flexible segments? How exactly are you making it so quiet? And what are you doing to keep the engine room cool enough as well as that aft cabin (especially when you were in the tropics)? Do you have some sort of shutoff near aft end of pipe? What are you doing to keep those heavy following seas out of it? Are you running the exit cooling water through and exhaust cooling jacket before it goes to the keel cooler. Please describe in more detail how the skeg keel cooler is designed as well as what structural reinforcement there is for the skeg.
Thanks very much!

[pacifica]

Gary, Those are really good questions! ha ha

Can you give me just a general idea about your previous boats and experience, if you don't mind ?
Sometimes a comparison makes description easier for me.

Steve

[U W Frog]

USCG six pac not more than 100 miles offshore (now expired). Atlantic ocean…other peoples boats. No ocean crossings yet. No experience with twin keel or dry exhaust (did crew on several short trips on a 65ft steel ketch that did have a dry stack exhaust up the mast which was very very quiet and did not get very warm, but I never had access to that engine room to learn anything), so there you go.
Looking for my cruiser, steel go anywhere vessel for many of the same reasons you chose steel. I do have concerns about the unprotected skeg since there is no keel directly in front of it. So….in addition to my last post questions, have you ever had a collision with anything or floating object?
Cheers

[pacifica]

Gary , thanks for the info, that helps

.quote from posted question: "Please describe in detail more about that dry exhaust system you have and are redoing. Are you welding in Schedule 80 pipe with a high loop somewhere and where is that? What meta are you using for both the hard pipe as well as the flexible segments? How exactly are you making it so quiet? And what are you doing to keep the engine room cool enough as well as that aft cabin (especially when you were in the tropics)? Do you have some sort of shutoff near aft end of pipe? What are you doing to keep those heavy following seas out of it? Are you running the exit cooling water through and exhaust cooling jacket before it goes to the keel cooler. Please describe in more detail how the skeg keel cooler is designed as well as what structural reinforcement there is for the skeg." end of quote


second quote, from same writer "I do have concerns about the unprotected skeg since there is no keel directly in front of it. So….in addition to my last post questions, have you ever had a collision with anything or floating object?" end of quote

The answers to these questions ,and especially the other questions in the previous posting are necessarily long. So I'll try to deal with these now, and the others later.

The Skeg: is set into the hull and capped over as a coolant tank. There are two steel transverse webs that are welded across the top of the skeg/tank and they run well up onto the curve of the hull(well into the turn of the bilge). In construction, when the boat was sitting on the hull centerline and the rudder skeg alone ( before the keels were attached), I felt that the transverse frames needed to be extended farther up onto the hull side, so we did that. Prior to doing that we could induce a little bit of movement by pushing rhythmically on the hull, which was eliminated by the 'web' extension.

There is a warm coolant hose FROM the engine that is injected into the skeg at the top. The cooled coolant is picked up by a deeper pipe that goes from the cap down to near the bottom of the skeg. Then it goes to a bolt-on transmission cooler, and thence to the engine.

The 'bus' type heater is on a separate circuit that is separately valved.

This engine cooling system has always worked well even equatorially, on many occasions.

Exhaust: the exhaust pipe is entirely 1.5" id ss corrugated pipe as per this supplier:
Corrugated Metal Hose

The original similar pipe has lasted about 18 years, but began to leak about one year ago in southern Chile. ( the carbon monoxide alarm was never triggered, and it was double checked). Because of my remote location I was unwilling to disable the engine for the repair, and I was unable to source replacement pipe at the time. Now i can do this, and am in the throes of the job.

The original pipe was bought for $1 per pound from a metals scrap yard - no such luck nowadays.
It consists of two lengths of 6' and 7'. The 6' length is aft and is aft of the ascendant gooseneck loop, and that explains the shortened life, with likely some seawater entering on occasion. The other proximal length attached to the engine has no leaks and is fine. I tested it today by filling with water after removal from the engine.

There is a ss ball valve in the pipe as it exits the hull through the transom above the waterline. I did have a flapper valve on the end, but it apparently was less than perfect. I now have a 2' extension ouside the hull of heavy hydraulic hose, that after hundreds of hours of running seems to be very heat resistant.
In following seas under sail I put a ziplock bag over the end of the exhaust pipe for insurance.

There is a gooseneck in the exhaust pipe that ascends to immediately under the cabin overhead (aft cabin) which is several feet above the waterline. Unlike a wet exhaust, there is NO WAY seawater can ever get into this engine, which occurs commonly on many boats.

The entire length of exhaust pipe is covered in thick sewn industrial insulating 'blankets', much as you could see on a fishboat or larger powerboat.

The aft cabin is definitely warm at the end of a day of motoring, which has been wonderful for most of our cruising. However , that said, we have had two major voyages in the tropics with up to four crew aboard and it has not been a problem.

Muffler is a standard steel muffler made by Nelson, I believe designed for a forklift. It is at the end of the exhaust pipe just before exiting. It needs replacement and I will use the same. It is surprisingly quiet. Separate insulating blanket covers it.

The joints are all sealed ( with thread tape) pipe threaded fittings.

My question is: why should the engine room be any warmer with a dry exhaust than with a usual sailboat exhaust?
Anyways, I do have a large capacity fan that actually sucks air out of the engine room to the outside, that I usually run while under power. The engine derives fresh air from the bilges.

Skeg and collision: you asked and here is the answer - I have had a number of collisions with this boat, but never with another boat. It has really been tested with hitting rocks and logs at a good speed on a few occasions. Checked: no damage

I cannot think of an incident where the skeg has taken the brunt of a collision. That would be difficult to arrange as it is really quite protected by the keels. If the boat is on a flat surface it sits only on the keels, with the skegshoe (horizontal 1/2' steel plate that projects out beyond the skeg) about 6'' off the ground. The rudder is another 3 or 4'' higher than the bottom of the skeg.
My greater concern was amongst the icefloes of Patagonia, but more for the prop than the skeg.

I forgot to mention that there is a 1/2 " thick steel web leading from about 18" down the leading edge of the skeg ,forward for about 3' to taper into the centerline of the hull (the main zincs are either bolted or welded to this web, depending on availabililty of a welder).

Once , in Haida Gwaii in 1998 or so, we were swept sideways by a tidal current in a narrow shallow channel and I think it was the skeg or rudder that arrested us against the rocks of Burnaby Narrows. The rudder is prevented from lifting out of the gudgeons by a 1/2" SS bolt through a pintle.
Probably a greater concern might be the constant working offshore in following seas. Even there, because the windvane is operating through a rudder trimtab there are quite low loads on the rudder and attachments. The rudder bearings are simple plastic pipe lengths pushed into place in the gudgeons. The pintles are about 1" or 1 1/4" ss bar. I replaced these bearings in Chile but there was surprisingly little wear after all the thousands of miles.

Check out the attached photo. It was time to replace the shaft zinc, a standard 1 1/4" donut zinc. I do it about every 6 months ( the hull zincs much less often). I have certainly done it with a snorkel , but if the tidal range is enough ( 3' or more, it doesn't have to be dry, just reachable) and if the water is cold I always put it on the beach. Nowadays, with a greater sense of caution, I have a look at the beach at the preceding low tide.

You can see in the photo that the beach is smooth but a bit steep. All was well and certainly the rudder and skeg were taking the ground for quite a long time before the keels even touched. This photo was in a lovely spot on the west side of Chichagof Island north of Sitka, called Mirror Harbor. Tricky shallow, rock-strewn entrance. Amazingly 1 hour after we had entered, a 55' glass schooner from Port Townsend with about 7' draft also entered. Brave chap.

I'll close here, and perhaps describe the sailing aspects another time.

Steve

[pacifica]

Sorry, here is the photo.

[U W Frog]

Interesting shot! Thanks for the info. Steve, I know your busy, can you post a short reply as to how close to the wind she will sail in both light air and gales?

[pacifica]

There are no wind instruments aboard, but perhaps 45 or 50 degrees apparent at 5.3 knots in flat seas, light to moderate winds.

How do other boats do? I don't have that kind of info in my head. Especially for laden cruising boats with fixed 3 blade props, etc etc.

It seems about as good as our old boat, a Spencer 35 ( like Hal Roth's 'Whisper')

Gales at sea? perhaps 75 or 80 degrees, keeping in mind that it would be a rare event indeed to be trying to beat hard to windward at sea in a gale. Really nasty work in a small boat, as you know. Sail shape and condition seems really important in those conditions. And tolerant people.

Has anyone actually ever died of discomfort?

But , if necessary we can sail out of a difficult lee shore situation. I have tried it several times ,sailing off the anchor, without being 'under the gun' , to just try it out.

For example we sailed into Caleta Martial ( look it up on Google earth if you like), about 35 miles north of Cape Horn to see if we would spend the night there. It is a popular anchorage with the few charter boats working out of Puerto Williams. By the time we arrived in late afternoon the wind was blowing straight in at 30 or 40 knots with a good 3 or 4 ' chop. I started the engine but left it disengaged, and we tacked out ( piece of cake !) and moved on to another more protected anchorage, Caleta Lientur.

Certainly I've done lots of beating to windward in fresh breezes/ yachtsman's gales in protected waters. Many happy days ( mostly alone, ha ha)

I've sailed alongside the same hull with a fin keel, and that vessel was pointing about 10 degrees higher and slightly faster when hard on the wind.
The wetted surface area of twin keel vs fin keel is not much different, perhaps 2 or 3 square feet more, at most, in the twin keels. Less lateral area in twin keels, and possibly some turbulence/interference between keels.

Off the wind, even easing 10 or 15 degrees, the speed difference is negligible.

In some conditions the twin keels might be a bit faster, but that's hypothetical, since I've only had the head-to-head experience once.

The boat seems to roll less , at anchor, for whatever that's worth. Oh,right. That's the comfort issue again.

[mattyc]

Just curious, what is the standing headroom down below? Also, a little off topic, but what method did you use to to retrieve your Jordon Series Drogue.