Lucia 40: Rigging and Sails

[Falbala60]

Thank you Terbonium.

Some thoughts :

1 - I am very surprized about the way Fountaine-Pajot is very strict on the options they propose... If that main sail hook option solved some problem, do they realized that it create others ?

2 - about Dynema : I am a old style sailor sticking on proven things and ways to manage a sailboat, and I am reluctant on "Dynema everywhere". OK on the genoa sheet point (sorry I am French speaking) to reduce the weight and the impact when tacking, BUT for the main halyard hook... HUM !

So you confirm that a hard shackle is doing a better job ?
For sure I will change it at commisionning.

Thank you.

[Dod42]

I fitted the Gaff lock to my Lipari. Lessons learn

The factory halyard seems to be 11 or 12mm poly double braid. Problem is it’s just a little too thick for the Gaff lock, so I changed it to 10mm spectra. Much stronger, less stretch and runs smoother, and it doesn’t seem to squash like the standard double braid.

The soft shackle needs to be stiff and slippery. I had one made by Wet tech rigging in Sydney and it’s been perfect.

Although the shackle should work the concern I would have is over time the stainless shackle will damage the aluminium of the Gaff hook. These thinks are not cheap. The soft shackle is softer than the aluminium so any damage should be to the shackle not the hook, and the soft shackle is cheaper.

I also installed a shock cord “downhaul” between the hook And the first batten car. This helps the shackle snap into place as you raise the sail. This is also used to stop the car just going up the mast if you unhook the soft shackle or forget to open the sail bag and try and raise the sail. Sounds silly but don’t ask how I know this can happen.

[Boatguy30]

What is the price of these? The only thing I saw online is 900 some odd euro for the sis 40? Maybe that includes the cars?

Jeff

[Dod42]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

What is the price of these? The only thing I saw online is 900 some odd euro for the sis 40? Maybe that includes the cars?

Jeff

We purchased ours in Australia, and it cost around $1000 AUD but this was just the hook but was a exact fit to the existing cars on our Lipari.

[Falbala60]

Originally Posted by Dod42

We purchased ours in Australia, and it cost around $1000 AUD but this was just the hook but was a exact fit to the existing cars on our Lipari.

So, even if this is a very nice design the price is a bit high.


OK the quantity produced will be quite small and paying the mold (maybe 15,000$) with that quantity is difficult.


I have a MARKFORGED 3D printer in my office, quite idle now, and even if I did not tried fiber carbon yet ... for sure the fiber carbon printed hook should be more resistant than the aluminium one. Just don't know how it will resist to UV.


The other direction would be direct aluminum printing !

[Dod42]

Originally Posted by Falbala60

So, even if this is a very nice design the price is a bit high.


OK the quantity produced will be quite small and paying the mold (maybe 15,000$) with that quantity is difficult.


I have a MARKFORGED 3D printer in my office, quite idle now, and even if I did not tried fiber carbon yet ... for sure the fiber carbon printed hook should be more resistant than the aluminium one. Just don't know how it will resist to UV.


The other direction would be direct aluminum printing !

I agree they are expensive, but they do work well.

Hey when I get back to OZ in July I’m happy to send you the plans they sent me.

[Falbala60]

Thank you Dod, Terbonium and Cotemar for your inputs on a subject that concern MOST of the catamaran owners.

Looking more into the details on the Karber Hook design, I have ONE FEAR !!!

Look the attached pictures. I understand that the 2 exit holes of the halyard are standing vertical and parallel when on the mast track.

Question : Is Fountaine-Pajot made the mast head in a way that the centerlines on the 2 strands on the halyard are the same like the hook when at the mast top ???

If they are like the pictures, with an angle, there should have shafing at a point YOU WILL NEVER SEED because on the very few inches of the halyard at the top. And also downwind when the sail is 90deg of the cat axis.

Are some cat owners with the Karver hook can check their halyard ?
If it breaks ... lot of fun to reinstall a new one.

Humanity (and sailboat designers) ... mostly learn by catastrophy ... I would prevent one :-)

[Falbala60]

The pictures....

[Dod42]

Originally Posted by Falbala60

Thank you Dod, Terbonium and Cotemar for your inputs on a subject that concern MOST of the catamaran owners.

Looking more into the details on the Karber Hook design, I have ONE FEAR !!!

Look the attached pictures. I understand that the 2 exit holes of the halyard are standing vertical and parallel when on the mast track.

Question : Is Fountaine-Pajot made the mast head in a way that the centerlines on the 2 strands on the halyard are the same like the hook when at the mast top ???

If they are like the pictures, with an angle, there should have shafing at a point YOU WILL NEVER SEED because on the very few inches of the halyard at the top. And also downwind when the sail is 90deg of the cat axis.

Are some cat owners with the Karver hook can check their halyard ?
If it breaks ... lot of fun to reinstall a new one.

Humanity (and sailboat designers) ... mostly learn by catastrophy ... I would prevent one :-)

Mine seem to be correctly angled however with the Lipari at full raised sail it doesn’t seem as close as the photos. Standard setup pre hook the halyard runs the wrong way which means I had to add an extra sheave at the masthead to get it to run the way the Karver lock needs. Not sure what the factory does as I’ve never seen a factory install as I did my install.

Having just been up the mast recently to fix the tv antenna I can verify that in my case there is no chafing at the point you described and this is nearly 18months on. I am due to haul in another 4 months and we usually end for end our halyards as part of our procedures so will check again.

[Falbala60]

From the Fountaine-Pajot Lucia 40 Karver Hook Option, I just hope that this is just "an artist sketch" rather than the REAL way thte mast head is designed for the hook.

If the hook and the mast head, with non parallel and non aligned halyard stands, are that way... for a Lucia that will be chartered and have a mainsail continously up and down ... at a point where the tension is the highest, shafing will occur for sure...

For Karver, as they claim the hook can be installed on most existing cat, I would design both rope holes as oblond holes (slot rather than cylindrical) that permit a certain misalignment. If a hard shackle is used instead of the textile this should not make any difference in the operation.

As a designer, I like very much the Murphy's Law ...
if there is A CHANCE ... it WILL !!!

[hobsonlea]

I’m not sure what you mean Falbala60
Peter
Here’s a pic from the karver folks..

[hobsonlea]

Here’s a pic of my Karver hook and dyneema loop

[Falbala60]

Originally Posted by hobsonlea

I’m not sure what you mean Falbala60

Peter

Here’s a pic from the karver folks..

Can you see the PARALLEL strands on the Karver drawings and the angle on the FP one. I am asking if the FP design for their mast head is like their dwg or this just a BAD illustration... and they made it properly

[brownman61]

Originally Posted by Dod42

Looks like K140

Here are the details

BTW The standard halyard ex factory was 12mm and is a snug fit in the 14mm hole. I was already planning on changing to 10mm spectra to reduce stretch and be better quality, should fit better and reduce friction. Worth considering if you go this path

Have you made the switch to 10mm Spectra halyard? Any improvement in ease of the mainsail coming down? We have the Karver hook on our new astrea42browneyedgirl.com and the main is resistant to coming down. I suspect too much halyard friction thru the hook and elsewhere in the halyard path with the factory standard halyard.

[MKB53]

I have sailed my Lucia for 3 seasons now and still find the main hard to drop.

There are two things that definitely contribute.

1: Halyard twist. Initially we used to use the power winch to hoist the whole way. It got progressively harder to drop the main. I took all the twists out and now go to the mast to hoist manually and only use the winch for the last few feet. Has made a big difference when dropping the main. It is also quicker which makes it easier to get the battens past the lazy bag lines.

2: The Antal V clutch holds well but to not free totally when open. There is enough friction with the 12mm halyard to make it harder, especially when added to the twist.

I am planning to fit a 10mm Spectra halyard this season.

On that point I am also going to fit a 10mm Spectra main sheet to combat the friction in the Antal clutch and multitude of turning blocks.