Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-11-2021, 13:37   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 60
New Elba 45 on order

Hello all!
I have a deposit on an Elba 45 and I am planning to move in on it with my wife and young daughter and ultimately go cruise hopefully for several years. I still have lots of time, but I need to figure out my build. I am very technical with prior experience in mechanical, electrical, fabrication, etc. (so I can do lots of things myself). I am hoping to get some info and advice from you experience Elba 45 sailors about the right build (very subjective I know, but I value any input!) Here are some questions:

1. What is the biggest dinghy that can work with the boat? Highfield? Any specific model?

2. Should I get all the winches electric with respect to my wife sailing?

3. Currently I have the Garmin package on my build and I also opted for forward facing sonar (with the hope of getting to remote locations around the globe). Any take on this matter? I have prior experience with Raymarine and Simrad. I know nothing about Garmin.

4. I am hoping to fit the boat with massive lithium batteries bank, solar, high output alternators, and hydro generator on top of the Onan diesel generator. I want to eliminate butane gas and use all electric stove, cooktop, and grill. Maybe even do 12 or 24 volt efficient A/C system that can work part of the time off the battery bank. Should I do 12, 24, or 48 volt bank to be used for converting to 110 V? Any experience or recommendations on electrical modification of this boat? I know this is a big topic that can fill books...

5. With respect to various world destinations, what about shore power? How do I cope with the several systems used around the world? Convertors?

6. I initially picked Teak for the cockpit since I love this material (with all the work that comes with it) but I hear it is very heavy, so I decided against it. I will use SeaDeck. Any thoughts?

7. Factory water maker is a close to 12k USD option. For this money I can install 2 good water makers for redundancy. Should I bother with it or just get the factory one?

After taking delivery, I will probably live on the boat for some times while wrapping up the end of my rat race life. I will have time to do lots of projects on the boat myself. With all the above in mind, I will appreciate any input, and thanks in advance!
hezi973 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2021, 13:52   #2
Registered User
 
Narfi's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Bush Alaska
Boat: Bateau FS17
Posts: 220
Re: New Elba 45 on order

If you haven't already, it is probably worth reading through (username)Helia44's Helia 44 and Saba 50 upgrade and improve threads.
__________________
I am not a troll
but sometimes
I play one Online
Narfi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2021, 04:39   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 349
Re: New Elba 45 on order

Not a FP, but we chose to go with 400ah at 48V and eliminated the generator all together, 2000W solar and Intergrel charging system. All electric appliances so only fuel on the boat will be diesel.

I would not do real teak decks, SeaDeck or FlexiTeak would be the route i would suggest you consider. SeaDeck being an EVA foam based product is going to be cooler on the feet, but also will stain a little easier. Like boats itís all a series of compromises youíve got to decide on.

Tender wise Iím up in the air still but considering OC tenders out of NZ or Highfield, trying to keep the weight down, so no fancy center console or 60hp engine for us.

Good luck, Iíd suggest scouring the YouTube channels out there, tons of Vlogs detailing how theyíve set up H44/47/50ís. Some really good ideas on other manufacturers as well, so soak it all up.

Good luck!
ol1970 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2021, 06:25   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 60
Re: New Elba 45 on order

Quote:
Originally Posted by ol1970 View Post
Not a FP, but we chose to go with 400ah at 48V and eliminated the generator all together, 2000W solar and Intergrel charging system. All electric appliances so only fuel on the boat will be diesel.

I would not do real teak decks, SeaDeck or FlexiTeak would be the route i would suggest you consider. SeaDeck being an EVA foam based product is going to be cooler on the feet, but also will stain a little easier. Like boats itís all a series of compromises youíve got to decide on.

Tender wise Iím up in the air still but considering OC tenders out of NZ or Highfield, trying to keep the weight down, so no fancy center console or 60hp engine for us.

Good luck, Iíd suggest scouring the YouTube channels out there, tons of Vlogs detailing how theyíve set up H44/47/50ís. Some really good ideas on other manufacturers as well, so soak it all up.

Good luck!
Thank you so much for the advice. In the last several weeks integrel came up again and again. Where are you based at and where did you install the system? I just read on FaceBook group "Fountaine Pajot ELBA 45" a fellow name Pavel did a similar install you yours. I have some time before my boat will be ready, which will give out more time and experience on the Integrel system it's reliability and functioning (I am especially curious about Air Con power draw vs system replenishment in the tropics) for me to make the final decision but I am fascinated! This takes the genset out of the build completely! nuts! I like the fact there is a system on each motor so you get redundancy. I like the fact the weight added by the battery is off set by the genset elimination. I am really curious to know from a long time users how does the system works for them
hezi973 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2021, 06:26   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Hunnter Legend 37.5
Posts: 1,008
Re: New Elba 45 on order

Just got off a 2021 Elba 45. That boat had an electric platform that the dinghy sits on, and the doubles as a swim platform. That way awesome! They had a very nice AB dinghy with a helm station and a 20 horse outboard. Two bench seats. Took six comfortably wherever we needed to go.
bensolomon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2021, 06:35   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 349
Re: New Elba 45 on order

Quote:
Originally Posted by hezi973 View Post
Thank you so much for the advice. In the last several weeks integrel came up again and again. Where are you based at and where did you install the system? I just read on FaceBook group "Fountaine Pajot ELBA 45" a fellow name Pavel did a similar install you yours. I have some time before my boat will be ready, which will give out more time and experience on the Integrel system it's reliability and functioning (I am especially curious about Air Con power draw vs system replenishment in the tropics) for me to make the final decision but I am fascinated! This takes the genset out of the build completely! nuts! I like the fact there is a system on each motor so you get redundancy. I like the fact the weight added by the battery is off set by the genset elimination. I am really curious to know from a long time users how does the system works for them
The youtube channel "Distant Shores" did a great video on their system that answers your questions much more eloquently than I could. Plenty of time to research and make the right decision for your needs!
ol1970 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2021, 06:56   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 60
Re: New Elba 45 on order

Quote:
Originally Posted by ol1970 View Post
The youtube channel "Distant Shores" did a great video on their system that answers your questions much more eloquently than I could. Plenty of time to research and make the right decision for your needs!
Thanks for that. I couldn't find much on YouTube just by searching "integrel boats / energy / setup/ etc. in various order. I will sure to check it out!
hezi973 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-11-2021, 17:35   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Annapolis
Boat: Fountaine Pajot Elba 45
Posts: 8
Re: New Elba 45 on order

Being the happy owner of S/V Silver Eagle hull #48, I can say you've made a good choice.

We got the electric platform and have a Highfield 340 dinghy. It fits perfectly. Though you should note that the electric platform has a max weight limit of 150 kg (330 lbs). I'm sure you could make that work with a much larger tender but you'll be exceeding the max weight limit so not sure if that will present warranty issues. If you want an extra large dinghy/tender you might be better off getting the davits instead.

If you decide to get the full Garmin package like we have you will want to get the Garmin GRID (Remove input device). When you're using the autopilot and the AIS alarms go off you'll want to silence them. You will find yourself trying to reach through the spinning wheel of the helm to touch the chart plotter. Otherwise you'll have to reach your arm all the way over the top. Basically it's a PITA. So I got a remote device installed just below the autopilot and in front of the cup holder on the right side of the helm. There really isn't any other good place to get it.

Whether you get the Garmin or Raymarine, make sure you get the Volvo Penta NEMA cables for the engines. They were only $90 each and I for the life of me can't understand why FP just doesn't install them by default. To me that is one item that should come standard from the factory. If you don't get them there is literally no way to tell what the engine exhaust temperature. All you'll get is the hour meter on the RPM gauges and fault lights that otherwise tell you very little little.

We didn't opt for the forward facing sonar so I can't speak to that.

We didn't get the lithium battery pack upgrade but just have the standard five battery house bank. I did spring for the Onan generator and it works great. However, I also got 1200w of Solar and I find that I almost never use the generator. After 9 months it only has 5.3 hours on it and 3.5 hours of those came that way from the factory. Finally one night the wife complained about being too hot when we were anchored out so I fired it up and went to bed. It now has 13 hours on it and it is coming up on the boat's first birthday. So I'm glad I have the generator and it's a nice back stop but we rarely use it.

We did opt for the Webasco heat from the factory and I am so glad I did. We ran the heat while we were on our maiden delivery and it was so nice to have heat on the boat under sail without having to run the generator to run the A/C in heat mode. Unless you're only going to ever be in the tropics it's nice to have quiet heat while under way.

Pavel on the facebook owner's group has a good write up on Lithium and 48 volt systems which run the AC with soft start. We might up grade to that in a few years when I bring her back in for a refit but that won't be anytime soon.

The only teak on the boat is on the princess seats forward, the electric dinghy platform and on the steps up to the helm and to what I have been calling the "Sky Lounge" up top. Other than that no other actual teak on the boat. We instead went with Flexiteak which was put on in La Rochelle and they did a fantastic job. It looks awesome and feels great under foot. We're usually barefoot on the boat in the summer time and we can't say that we've really complained about the Flexiteak getting too hot.

As for the water maker, we didn't take the factory option but instead chose to go with the much more expensive option and got a Spectra Newport 400 12v version. We can make water straight off of the solar during the day and we don't have to fire up the generator to power it. It only puts out 16 liters an hour but you can literally run it all day with the solar and not have to worry about draining the house bank down to do it. Just Cat's in Fort Lauderdale did the install and I have to say I was really impressed with their work. It's beautifully laid out which makes it so easy to maintain.

Oh, another owner's tip. The lazy bag will leak rain water into the sails. When you are raising the sails make damn sure that the forward pop up window in the main salon is closed. We mistakenly left it open and the massive amount of water ran down onto the coach roof and right on top of the open window. Half the water went inside and the rest went onto the forward cushions. So make damn sure that that window is closed prior to getting under way.

Oh, spring for a wheel lock on the helm. You'll want it when docking as the rudders are in front of the sail drives. So when you kick it in reverse to dock stern to it will push the helm over to one side or another and then you have to deal with that in addition to working the engines to dock.

I'll post more things as I think of them. Any questions, just ask.
Off the Hook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-11-2021, 17:53   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Annapolis
Boat: Fountaine Pajot Elba 45
Posts: 8
Re: New Elba 45 on order

Oh, as for electric winches. When I ordered my boat I mistakenly assumed that it came with two powered winches for the jib sheets and main halyard. When it arrived I found that it only had one powered winch. Evidently the second powered winch is an option and I didn't chose it because I didn't know about it. I would get both electric winches from the factory. You won't regret it and if you want the exercise you can always pull out the winch handle.

For some reason FP doesn't provide clutches for either of the jib sheets. The port side jib sheet can be replaced with one the same as the main sheet. From the factory it just comes with a loop through which the port jib sheet runs. You'll want to have that swapped out for a normal clutch.

You can't really put in a standard clutch on the starboard side. You'll want to replace the foot block behind the starboard jib car that feeds into the middle winch. You can replace it with foot block with a jammer. If you don't replace the loop and foot block with clutches and a jammer, you will never be able to unload the middle winch. I'm not sure why FP doesn't do that but if I were you that's the first thing I'd be doing.

In order the drop the main I find that I have to release the clutch on the main at the helm and then run up to the mast and actually pull the main halyard line up from the two turning blocks at the bottom of the mast. As long as I do that the main can come down rather quickly. There just appears to be too much tension from the bottom of the mast back to the helm for the main halyard to run free and have the main drop quickly. I'm okay with pulling the main halyard and just feeding it into the mast. It's slightly annoying but now that I know what I have to do to drop the main quickly it doesn't annoy me enough to spend $1,500 on a new dyneema line to replace the main halyard. For that much I can go to the mast to drop the main.
Off the Hook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-11-2021, 17:55   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Annapolis
Boat: Fountaine Pajot Elba 45
Posts: 8
Re: New Elba 45 on order

And spring for the extra Lewmar winch on the starboard side in the cockpit if you're going to run a geneaker or a parasail. That's another thing that got by me and I'm having to get it put in post commissioning.
Off the Hook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2021, 07:48   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 60
Re: New Elba 45 on order

Man, thank you so much for giving out such a detailed advice! I am taking the liberty to copy and paste this in Pavel's FaceBook group. I think your input can help other in my position. I got few comments and questions:

Where do you boat and where do you plan to boat? It sounds like you are not in the tropics with your no use of AC on the boat... Are you a full time sailor? I know I am planning to spend a considerable amount of time in latitudes where all I want to wear is a loin cloth (while my spoiled loins needs cooling...)

After talking to people that knows the Elba very well, I am ditching the teak idea.

On my current build, the dealer recommended temp gauges for both motors for about $500. If I can connect the NEMA cable (and I do have experience fitting and connecting boat electronics so I can do it myself) and add another small Garmin MFD to work in parallel with the screen I get in the helm I can use it for engine info and for back up if one screen goes bad. Is it possible? Do I have room on the dash for another screen?

I am planning to look into the Webasco. AC heating takes lots of electric energy... Did you ever figure out the diesel consumption per hour for the Webasco?

Thanks for the lazy bag flood warning! Where did you get the steering lock? Is it a dealer option?

Thank you for all the valuable information. I have a fellow that I met on FB which dealt with many of those boats and knows them very well. He will help me with the build and fitting after delivery in France. I will run this by him. If you plan on passing by NYC and you want to take a pit stop, Reach out to me at hezi973@gmail. I can set you up at the marina I am at and would love to see you and your boat! Lunch/dinner on me of course!
hezi973 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-11-2021, 16:08   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Annapolis
Boat: Fountaine Pajot Elba 45
Posts: 8
Re: New Elba 45 on order

Don't waste your money buying temp gauges for both engines. The NEMA cables will handle it and you can configure the chart plotter or either of the MFD gauges to display engine rpm and temp. I set it up for one the port engine on the left MFD and the starboard on the right display. It is configured on one of the many screens you can configure. So when I'm motoring I just change screens on the MFDs to show engine RPM and temp. Besides, you've really got no good place to add additional gauges on the helm. There is room for one more additional MFD between the chart plotter and the MFDs. I'm leaving it open for now and might buy another additional MFD if I think I need it. So far I haven't needed it.

Also understand that the Garmin Autopilot unit is already in the starboard engine compartment. All you really have to do is run the cable from the engine and tie it into the NMEA network off of the autopilot. For the port side engine you'll have to run the cable over to the starboard side. That shouldn't be too hard. If you're not comfortable with it you can always pay to have someone do it.

Also don't forget that you can use your iPad or android tablet to run Garmin Active Captain and have it mirror the other chart plotter at the helm station inside. That way you can effectively have two chart plotters at the helm displaying different data. I usually prop up the iPad on the slanted left portion of the helm seat. And you can control the autopilot through the iPad just like a chart plotter. I have to admit it is sorta of surreal to be sitting in the Sky Lounge underway and make course corrections to avoid traffic by using the iPad.

Where do I sail? Well, after taking her home from Fort Lauderdale back to Annapolis, we've been mostly sailing on the Chesapeake just to get more familiar with the idiosyncrasies of the boat and so that my crew can get more hands on experience. This summer we've stayed in the Chesapeake Bay but will be branching out and going up and down the eastern seaboard next summer. Current plan is to go full time cruising within two to three years.

I never did bother computing a fuel burn rate for the Webasco. Will probably have to do that and will have many chances now that the temperature is dropping.

The steering lock was recommended to my by the folks at Atlantic Cruising Yachts. I'm still working down my post commissioning acquisition list. So I haven't got that one bought and installed yet. Will let you know how much it cost me once it's done.

Narfi above mentioned (username)Helia44's Helia 44 and Saba 50 upgrade and improve threads. I do recommend researching and reading his postings. I got lots of great ideas for upgrades from his posts and I can highly recommend reading them.

Thanks for your kind offer and we will certainly reach out to you if we ever get into NYC.
Off the Hook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-11-2021, 08:57   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 60
Re: New Elba 45 on order

Hi Off the Hook, I copy your write up and put on Pavel's FB group. Pavel replied and I thought it'll be interesting for you to read and beneficial to other Elba prospective owners, so here is his reply:

great info. Just some comments:
1/ the 360cm dinghy will kill the platform because you have to add also weight of the engine, fuel, all equipment and sometimes body weight of the person who is landing/ launching the dinghy. If you go with this size davits and related electric winch is the only option imho
2/ we don’t have any issue to manage the plotter without GRID additional installation however it will provide more comfort definitely
3/ we have Integrel so getting all additional information about the VP on the screen/ RPMs, temperature, batteries status etc/
4/ depends on the boat location and usage, we are struggling even with 2000W solar panels to cover our basic consumption due to higher latitudes and not enough sun time to charge
5/ WEBASTO - yes, I second this option heating option. Silent, efficient and warming the boat without any issues regardless of conditions
6/ we didn’t installed soft start on the factory AC as the system is able to run the units without this additional installation without any issues
7/ happy they can produce water any time, however we discovered some limitations due to water not suitable for production so I would recommend to install higher capacity (we have 105L/H and still not enough)
8/ rudder wheel look - second tho upgrade otherwise is much more difficult to handle the boat in marinas
9/ you can order additional electric middle winch for factory and it’s really helpful
10/ you can add clutches for the Genoa sheets on both sides, check the group post. The turning block with lock mentioned is not suitable to take a high load so it’s better to modify it correctly
11/ his issue with dropping main is caused by mix of - bad halyard, not lubricated cars and maybe too loaded from installation. Ours main is coming down without any effort just releasing the halyard
12/ yes, the additional winch on the starboard for Code0, Gennaker or Spinnaker is worth the money (portside is coming with bowsprit factory option)
hezi973 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Elba Sailing/Charter Wannabes00n General Sailing Forum 9 24-04-2023 12:37
Elba 45 250 sold peterp Multihull Sailboats 9 09-10-2021 20:19
Reputable Surveyor in Elba, Itlay hic ego qui... Boat Ownership & Making a Living 0 20-05-2020 18:56
Mahe 36: Minimum Equipment on a New Order ? ArmyChief Fountaine Pajot 11 05-02-2011 07:49
My trip to Elba Island marcello Europe & Mediterranean 2 13-02-2009 09:19

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:41.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.