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Old 09-10-2017, 04:43   #16
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Re: Irma's Wrath

We all feel for you; what is sadder than the loss of a vessel despite all measures taken? It's a humbling thought to us all, that you can do all the "right" things and still be undone by Mother Nature. Man proposes, God disposes. Best wishes to you and your family. Why do I suspect that you'll get back on the horse :-)?
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Old 09-10-2017, 06:17   #17
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Re: Irma's Wrath

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Originally Posted by PapaLulu View Post
We haven't been able to get on to VG yet. Surveyor was due there yesterday but the yard has reportedly been busy cleaning up so not sure what lessons can be learned. We won't be on VG until the boat is upright, if at all.
Hopefully they quickly conclude it's a total loss and you get a timely insurance check for the Agreed Valuation on the policy. Let us know how that goes.

Amazing to see the keels sheared off on your boat. The CYOA boats at VGYH look to have been clobbered. There appears to be a catamaran on top of Wide Ranger.
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Old 09-10-2017, 10:10   #18
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Re: Irma's Wrath

We believe that may have been S/V Flip Flop from CYOA. It doesn't seem possible we were just signing our purchase papers the same day as you at the 2014 Annapolis Boat Show.
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Old 10-10-2017, 06:15   #19
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Re: Irma's Wrath

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Originally Posted by wanderlust42 View Post
Terrible news and really sorry to hear about your loss. As it appears that it's the tie-downs which failed, could you please let us know what it was tied down to, and the number and type of tie-downs used? In the end, what failed? The ground anchor points or the tie-down lines/straps themselves? Would be very helpful to know for future hurricane storage planning. Thanks!
We had Dream Chaser ride out Irma (not much of an event in PR) and Maria (almost a direct hit) on the hard at Puerto Del Rey Marina in Fajardo, Puerto Rico. Hurricane secure tie down land storage. 8 straps tied to concrete and rebar footings in the ground. We have not seen her yet (other than 2 pics of exterior) but the report is that she made it with no damage at all. A miracle really.

Straps are very important, but so is what the straps are connected to in the ground. Also, we faced east, with a large portion of mangroves between us and the sea. We were "in line" with other boats to the south and north of us so I think we got some wind protection from other boats, some from mangroves, and some from the fact we took most wind on or just off the bow. Mast was up, but all exterior canvas, sails, grill, etc. had been stowed for storage. We even take off the trampoline.

Finally, our dry storage area is relatively large, flat, not very close to any mountains (for flooding and mud slides), and without many buildings around. So much less chance of flying debris.

My heart sank when I saw Big Papa Lulu. But as one commentator said, boats can be replaced, so the important thing is that PapaLuLu and family are safe.
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Old 11-10-2017, 12:12   #20
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Re: Irma's Wrath

I was there for a second time with the surveyor on Sunday. I have also been to Nanny Cay and Independent Boat Yard. A lot of us did everything as right as possible and still got clobbered.

The wind speeds where close to 200 mph. That wind speed turns everything into a wing. I saw mono hulls it pits turned over.

Jay
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Old 11-10-2017, 13:12   #21
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Re: Irma's Wrath

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Originally Posted by Snore View Post
WOW! You did all the right things. She was on the hard and tied down.

The photos are just numbing.
First, my serious condolences on the loss.

That is believed to be the right thing. However, I've looked at boats and marinas in South Texas and South Florida and, not in person, those in the Caribbean. I've found the benefit of being on land to be greatly exaggerated. Here's what I've seen with no statistical analysis, just observation, and some of it flies in the face of conventional wisdom. But then I've often found "conventional wisdom" not to be as smart as thought.

1. Boats on land at marinas and yards have done worse than boats in the water at the same locations. They got more wind and they were more subject to what happened to adjacent boats and buildings. Also, in some areas, they weren't above the surge and flood levels. I saw houses in Rockport, TX that were reduced to piles of rubble and their boat was in the canal behind their house without a scratch on it.

2. Boats at floating docks did appreciably better than those at fixed docks as long as the piles were tall enough. Concrete floating docks handled it the best. Just as we've found out on land, wood doesn't handle hurricanes well. That's why you can't build a stick home in South Florida today, only concrete and steel. Marinas need to carefully study before rebuilding. There have been marinas to survive Katrina, ones to survive Harvey, ones to survive Irma. That's because they were built to handle it.

3. Boats in full slips, with fingers on both sides, did better than those with only one short finger.

4. Powerboats fared considerably better than monohull sailboats. We talk about sailboats and seaworthiness. However, without sails they are very unstable. They toppled on land before powerboats did and in the water as well.

5. Some powerboats in the ideal docks, floating with tall piles, still sunk due to filling with water and the bilge pumps not taking care of it either through failure or loss of electric. One of the worst was a friend whose boat was tied very securely, but started taking on water and wasn't able for some reason to pump it out. People could see it filling and knew it was going to sink, but couldn't do anything about it as they couldn't safely get to it.

There are no winners in hurricanes, just some lose less than others. I get no pleasure out of not losing when surrounded by neighbors who did. I get no pleasure of doing fine in Fort Lauderdale when I see how things are in Puerto Rico.

The point is that we need to reexamine our previous thoughts and study these hurricanes to see what worked and is most likely to in the future.
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Old 11-10-2017, 13:37   #22
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Re: Irma's Wrath

There seems to be no rhyme nor reason to what worked and what did not once winds got up to 200 knots. The pictures are heartbreaking and repeated again and again. All members of the CYOA family wish fellow owners well and especially the staff who are at the pointy end in dealing with this.

The good news is that Captain Jay does not seem to be starving based on some of the Facebook meal posts....
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Old 31-10-2017, 06:44   #23
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Re: Irma's Wrath

Agree with studying what worked and what didnít. My distant conclusions are that tightly packed catamarans faired better. Iíve heard that bunkers may provide a similar protection from lifting force winds that might otherwise vector underneath the bridge deck. Integrating tie downs between boats and somehow stabilizing masts (with neighboring masts?) might also bring more stability. Would be nice to have an engineering team model these type of approaches and publish best practices. Given the fair number of boats sustaining minor damages through this, there are bound to be effective lessons learned.
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