Helia 44: Buying a Helia 44

[dochueb]

To those few in possession of their Helias...anchor selection?

I'm leaning towards a 73 lb. Ronca. Any issues fitting that on bow rollers / anchor assembly?

Thoughts? That weight may be a bit of overkill, but...I wanna sleep well on the hook.

Dave

[Nasa]

Dochueb. According to the Rochna site the anchor appropriate for a 44ft cat is a 40kg. That seems a little overkill to so I too was considering the 33kg(73lb) anchor. The anchor supplied by FP is a 20kg Delta, way too light IMO. Depending on the overall load weight of the boat the 33kg should be fine. Anything round the 12ton mark is appropriate for the 33kg based on advice I have received from other suppliers. A Lagoon 450 would I think require a 40kg as its dry weight is 15.5tons before cruising load. The Helias starting weight is 10.8, allow two for 'stuff' and should be all good.

[capcook]

Folks,

What is the best strategy for purchasing a Helia ? We will likely be crusing around Europe to begin with so I was thinking of just contacting the FP factory to see if I can buy it direct, is this an option? a good one?

Or is it more important to find a dealer who will help you fit it out and make sure everything is installed correctly, commission it etc... if this is the better route can anyone suggest the best dealer to use?

Finally, I guess someone will be representing FP at the Miami show and I plan to attend... always "show pricing" going on there... would it make sense to just get from whoever is representing FP in Miami ?

Thanks for your help with this... Cheers

[Cotemar]

FP will not sell direct.
You will have to go through a broker.
The FP Helia 44 at the boat show">Miami boat show is availability for sale.
A few FP brokers will be at the Miami boat show

http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=qvalu5bab&v=001C8QXJYUMj5c0VVwJz1bSRVLL P8FzMd6a28EoZlm5EAA0YzSQqAIcRcYMtlNYIdYbTpvnyJ49Hs x6YkKnHJhAX_P2Rws9cRJd-MSMYuv7r7tJr9wQDH65Xwzx6X9sesuG4nbDY-04OB19n9mee9-4fuZdbQf_8zZu9jgJcKRdFjiuS2dwnVhAAKp6JLc3gFX_DLv3p 2ibDrS0hF1bOHK9ng%3D%3D

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by Cotemar

FP will not sell direct.
You will have to go through a broker.
The FP Helia 44 at the Miami boat show is availability for sale.
A few FP brokers will be at the Miami boat show

http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?llr=qvalu5bab&v=001C8QXJYUMj5c0VVwJz1bSRVLL P8FzMd6a28EoZlm5EAA0YzSQqAIcRcYMtlNYIdYbTpvnyJ49Hs x6YkKnHJhAX_P2Rws9cRJd-MSMYuv7r7tJr9wQDH65Xwzx6X9sesuG4nbDY-04OB19n9mee9-4fuZdbQf_8zZu9jgJcKRdFjiuS2dwnVhAAKp6JLc3gFX_DLv3p 2ibDrS0hF1bOHK9ng%3D%3D

AFAIK, if you take delivery in LaRochelle, FP will sell directly to the customer.

[Gordon]

DotDun,

The arrangement for a pickup in La Rochelle is between the agent/broker and the manufacturer. FP deliver the boat to the dock for final commissioning by 'your' selected agent, you then take delivery.
You would use your home country agent to arrange the purchase, this then ensures your warranty issues are persued.

Cheers Gordon.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by Gordon

DotDun,

The arrangement for a pickup in La Rochelle is between the agent/broker and the manufacturer. FP deliver the boat to the dock for final commissioning by 'your' selected agent, you then take delivery.
You would use your home country agent to arrange the purchase, this then ensures your warranty issues are persued.

Cheers Gordon.

This obviously changed in the last 10 years.

[yeloya]

Yes a lot has changed even over the last two years..FP doesn't even want to issue an invoice for the boat thye are selling, would you believe it ..
They say too much buraucracy that they don't want to deal with...
Cheers
Yeloya

[capcook]

Thanks all for your comments, I appreciate... here's hoping things work out over the next week or so...

Cheers

[boom23]

Regarding the Anchor, I asked the Rocna and Manson companies for anchor size recommendations for my 450.

Manson recommended the 80lb Manson Supreme if I do extensive cruising. For coastal cruising, they said I might be OK with the 60lb with all chain.
Rocna recommended the 88lb model.

I got the 80lb Manson Supreme because I ‘ve had good luck with it in the past.

[spiv]

I have read he whole thread and not found any details of these:

1- where are the rudders positioned? Ahead or behind the props?
This is crucial for slow speed maneuvering, being able to use the additional thrust of the water directed sideways by your rudders make a huge difference when docking

2- What is the bridgedeck clearance? A low bridgedeck banging is not just very annoying, in the long run it can cause structural damage.

3- with your hand on the throttles, how many corner of the Helia can be seen?


Just for comparison purposes, on my Salina the rudders are aft of the props and I can 'walk' the boat sideways to some extent.

The bidgedeck at its lowest point is 860mm, I wish it was more.....

From the helm I can see all four pointy bits, great when reversing into a busy Med port with only inches to spare.

As for the anchor, I had a Delta 26kg that held me in a 46 kn squall, but dragged in other instances, it always depends on the ground and how well the anchor is 'set' to begin with.
I had many sleepless nights, now I have a Delta 40kg and sleep like a baby.....

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by spiv

I have read he whole thread and not found any details of these:

1- where are the rudders positioned? Ahead or behind the props?
This is crucial for slow speed maneuvering, being able to use the additional thrust of the water directed sideways by your rudders make a huge difference when docking

If you look at the last page of the brochure located at:

http://www.catamarans-fountaine-pajo...e_helia_44.pdf

The rudders are in front of the props.

[spiv]

I see.... that's NOT good.

Those little props so far back will not give you much maneuverability at slow speed.

Now, picture this: you are entering a small, crowded Greek harbour full of boats tied stern to.
The breeze is 15Kn on the beam and you are already sweating at the thought of backing your 7.4m wide at into the small space. You put into reverse to stop and maneuver when the dinghy painter gets caught into one of your props and stops the engine (or one engine stops for any reason).
Now with only one prop and no rudder help you have absolutely NO control of your boat and if you are too close to the other boats to drop the anchor you are in for a big insurance claim.

They place the engines back to increase the space in the aft cabins at the expense of maneuverability also placing a lot of weight far aft (increased hobby horsing).
I would also be concerned with the possibility of cavitation in steep seas.
I once had a cat that pitched a lot and when going head-on into even 1.5m waves would cavitate to the point that going forward was a problem.

Now, I am just speculating, I hope the Helia does not cavitate, but the low maneuverability is for sure.

[Lagoon4us]

1) Hobby horsing usually comes about when the aft sections are similar to the forward sections in shape and buoyancy. I built a Tennant 32' and know the feeling well, todays designs tend to be flatter and more bouyant aft.

2) Modern designers cater for the weight aft in their hull form so not really an issue.

3)Slowly does it with any docking, drop a motor and any cat is disastrous to manoeuvre. A remedy is a manned dinghy in the water ready if the scenario is likely. Bow thruster helps! The dinghy suffices.

Others that have these boats could comment on cavitation.

Cheers, just my opinion.

[DotDun]

Originally Posted by spiv

I see.... that's NOT good.

Those little props so far back will not give you much maneuverability at slow speed.

Now, picture this: you are entering a small, crowded Greek harbour full of boats tied stern to.
The breeze is 15Kn on the beam and you are already sweating at the thought of backing your 7.4m wide at into the small space. You put into reverse to stop and maneuver when the dinghy painter gets caught into one of your props and stops the engine (or one engine stops for any reason).
Now with only one prop and no rudder help you have absolutely NO control of your boat and if you are too close to the other boats to drop the anchor you are in for a big insurance claim.

They place the engines back to increase the space in the aft cabins at the expense of maneuverability also placing a lot of weight far aft (increased hobby horsing).
I would also be concerned with the possibility of cavitation in steep seas.
I once had a cat that pitched a lot and when going head-on into even 1.5m waves would cavitate to the point that going forward was a problem.

Now, I am just speculating, I hope the Helia does not cavitate, but the low maneuverability is for sure.

There is no doubt that low speed forward maneuverability is affected with one engine out, more so with rudders in front of the prop. Although in reverse it actually may be better to have the rudders in front of the prop!

The main remedy is to keep both engines running. Yes, I know, stuff happens!

It makes me think that placement of the rudder and rudder post take priority over engine placement. Then, of course, gaining as much room as possible for the engine-less living space is the next priority.