Windows 8 Tablet with built-in GPS

[Delezynski]

Yes, PLEASE keep us posted!

I also just picked up an Windows 8, Asus Vivotab smart, with a built in GPS. I will play with my old GPS puck until a way to use the internal GPS can be used.

Thanks
Greg

[armido]

Although the rationale below concerns OpenCPN running in a chroot environment on an android tablet, it may very well also apply to tablets with Windows. The author is Maurius (mrm), who said he would not be able to put the server together until mid-February. So, we hope to hear from him again soon. There has been success using a bluetooth gps with OpenCPN on an android tablet. So, you may want to give it a go with your Windows device. Visit my Thread "OpenCPN install on android tablets easier now" for possible developments in the near future getting onboard and external gps working with OpenCPN on tablets using API's rather than physical addresses.

"...since Linux runs as a chrooted process, Android processes and services are running in parallel;
chrooted means isolated, so no way for direct access to hardware and data exchange, but that may be not necessary, because...
network (TCP/IP) communication should be possible between the two, i.e. a Linux program (like OpenCpn) should be able to connect to a socket on a local(?) interface in Android;
GPS chipsets may be different in various manufacturers' tablets, but in all cases there will be factory installed drivers for Android, and...
Android offers a standard API to access GPS data, so Android apps do not have to worry about drivers for particular GPS hardware present.

Given the above assumptions are true, the solution I propose is to write a small Android native server app (daemon), which will bind to a TCP/IP interface (on Android side) and serve NMEA stream to any app which can connect to it. Once such service is up and running, OpenCPN may be able to connect to it directly."

Hope this helps to at least get some ideas flowing that may lead to a similar type solution for Windows tablets.

armido

[armido]

Although the rationale below concerns OpenCPN running in a chroot environment on an android tablet, it may very well also apply to tablets with Windows. The author is Maurius (mrm), who said he would not be able to put the server together until mid-February. So, we hope to hear from him again soon. There has been success using a bluetooth gps with OpenCPN on an android tablet. So, you may want to give it a go with your Windows device. Visit my Thread "OpenCPN install on android tablets easier now" for possible developments in the near future getting onboard and external gps working with OpenCPN on tablets using API's rather than physical addresses.

"...since Linux runs as a chrooted process, Android processes and services are running in parallel;
chrooted means isolated, so no way for direct access to hardware and data exchange, but that may be not necessary, because...
network (TCP/IP) communication should be possible between the two, i.e. a Linux program (like OpenCpn) should be able to connect to a socket on a local(?) interface in Android;
GPS chipsets may be different in various manufacturers' tablets, but in all cases there will be factory installed drivers for Android, and...
Android offers a standard API to access GPS data, so Android apps do not have to worry about drivers for particular GPS hardware present.

Given the above assumptions are true, the solution I propose is to write a small Android native server app (daemon), which will bind to a TCP/IP interface (on Android side) and serve NMEA stream to any app which can connect to it. Once such service is up and running, OpenCPN may be able to connect to it directly."

Hope this helps to at least get some ideas flowing that may lead to a similar type solution for Windows tablets.

armido

[Tar34]

Originally Posted by armido

Although the rationale below concerns OpenCPN running in a chroot environment on an android tablet, it may very well also apply to tablets with Windows. The author is Maurius (mrm), who said he would not be able to put the server together until mid-February. So, we hope to hear from him again soon. There has been success using a bluetooth gps with OpenCPN on an android tablet. So, you may want to give it a go with your Windows device. Visit my Thread "OpenCPN install on android tablets easier now" for possible developments in the near future getting onboard and external gps working with OpenCPN on tablets using API's rather than physical addresses.

"...since Linux runs as a chrooted process, Android processes and services are running in parallel;
chrooted means isolated, so no way for direct access to hardware and data exchange, but that may be not necessary, because...
network (TCP/IP) communication should be possible between the two, i.e. a Linux program (like OpenCpn) should be able to connect to a socket on a local(?) interface in Android;
GPS chipsets may be different in various manufacturers' tablets, but in all cases there will be factory installed drivers for Android, and...
Android offers a standard API to access GPS data, so Android apps do not have to worry about drivers for particular GPS hardware present.

Given the above assumptions are true, the solution I propose is to write a small Android native server app (daemon), which will bind to a TCP/IP interface (on Android side) and serve NMEA stream to any app which can connect to it. Once such service is up and running, OpenCPN may be able to connect to it directly."

Hope this helps to at least get some ideas flowing that may lead to a similar type solution for Windows tablets.

armido

Just curious. Why, when there are painless solutions, must some inflict so much pain on themselves? Seriously, I respect that some enjoy the challenge solving for an unsupported feature, but I see no benefit as an early OS adopter or worse buying into an orphaned platform. Can someone educate me?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by nohal

That the things like "Weather" and "Maps" work does not mean anything for applications like OpenCPN - Metro has a special API to access the GPS data, so the GPS does not actually have to be visible in the system at all. Unfortunately this API is not accessible for normal apps, so unless you find a way to create a virtual COM port for the GPS somehow, the things will not run very happily.

Typical for Windows. I don't understand why you even bother to think about W8 let alone buy a tablet with internal GPS that runs it but where your own apps can't use the GPS

[nohal]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Typical for Windows. I don't understand why you even bother to think about W8 let alone buy a tablet with internal GPS that runs it but where your own apps can't use the GPS

I definitely don't think about buying something like that, but I bother with a way to actually implement something to use the Location API as it's something I can possibly do. What I can't do at the other hand is turn the mass market from being flooded by devices like this

[dave777]

Originally Posted by billreilly

OpenCPN only gives the option to use Garmin, Network GPSD or AIS Port...

There are new GPS options with the new version 3.2

-Virtually unlimited input port multiplexing, with shared I/O and individual data rate settings.
-Selective message echo capability, similar to third-party mux applications.
-Programmable output port messages, for e.g. autopilot interfaces.
-Full Network input and output, including TCP, UDP, and GPSD services.
-GPSD client support for Windows platforms.

Data Connections | Official OpenCPN Homepage

[armido]

Originally Posted by Tar34

Just curious. Why, when there are painless solutions, must some inflict so much pain on themselves? Seriously, I respect that some enjoy the challenge solving for an unsupported feature, but I see no benefit as an early OS adopter or worse buying into an orphaned platform. Can someone educate me?

Tar34,

If you'll shed some light on what you believe are "painless solutions", what you mean by by "an unsupported feature" and "orphaned platform" I'd be happy to respond to your comment. Also, which "OS", commonly used to denote an operating system, did you adopt early on?

Anyone wanting to use a tablet running OpenCPN for the purpose of navigation while offshore has very good reasons for doing so. The primary advantages are low power consumption and small footprint. If your driving a boat with umpteen jillion amps of battery reserve, more space than you know what to do with, and have enough real estate topside to carry 1,000 watts of solar panels and a wind generator or two to boot - these matters may not concern you. This is my preliminary response to your comment. Also, personally I do not need a gps attached to my tablet to enjoy the utility of OpenCPN. Want to know my exact position? Just drop a mark on the chart displayed in OpenCPN in the general vicinity of where I think I am, modify the mark properties to reflect current coordinates from my Garmin 72H (has a display), and wala, the mark appears at my exact position on the chart. Quite frankly, I don't understand why people do not recognize the utility of OpenCPN on a tablet - regardless of OS - even when a gps is not attached. Still, I'll do what I can to make this a possibility.

armido

[Tar34]

Originally Posted by armido

Tar34,

If you'll shed some light on what you believe are "painless solutions", what you mean by by "an unsupported feature" and "orphaned platform" I'd be happy to respond to your comment. Also, which "OS", commonly used to denote an operating system, did you adopt early on?

Anyone wanting to use a tablet running OpenCPN for the purpose of navigation while offshore has very good reasons for doing so. The primary advantages are low power consumption and small footprint. If your driving a boat with umpteen jillion amps of battery reserve, more space than you know what to do with, and have enough real estate topside to carry 1,000 watts of solar panels and a wind generator or two to boot - these matters may not concern you. This is my preliminary response to your comment. Also, personally I do not need a gps attached to my tablet to enjoy the utility of OpenCPN. Want to know my exact position? Just drop a mark on the chart displayed in OpenCPN in the general vicinity of where I think I am, modify the mark properties to reflect current coordinates from my Garmin 72H (has a display), and wala, the mark appears at my exact position on the chart. Quite frankly, I don't understand why people do not recognize the utility of OpenCPN on a tablet - regardless of OS - even when a gps is not attached. Still, I'll do what I can to make this a possibility.

armido

Wouldn't iNavX be an alternative? As far as an OS, Windows8 is still in it's infancy though I suspect it will mature in time, which is what I meant by early adopter. Perhaps I was a little harsh in describing the platform as orphaned but that's assuming Windows becomes more compliant or performing some Linux or Android hack. The issue of not supporting the internal GPS has been known. Wouldn't attaching an external GPS defeat the power consumption argument?
I like Open CPN. But if I were to choose fumbling for connectivity or not I might think differently. Educate me. Is there a difference in versatility between Open CPN and iNavX? I currently use Navionics software.

[s/v Jedi]

People who are out there navigating with a tablet use an iPad with iNavX, but there s a significant crowd who regard Apple as the big bad boogeyman and sell their soul to whoever promises an alternative, no matter how rough and painful that road is. Must be same reason there are masochists.

[Spoooner]

For those wanting gps devices on there phone (that actually work, android gps sucks) and for there computer/tablet, etc. Garmin GLO is a bluetooth GPS (12 hr bat life, plugs in usb to charge) that I'm looking to buy, it's about $100, and it will work with all your windows and android stuff (with some simple software).

[armido]

Originally Posted by Spoooner

For those wanting gps devices on there phone (that actually work, android gps sucks) and for there computer/tablet, etc. Garmin GLO is a bluetooth GPS (12 hr bat life, plugs in usb to charge) that I'm looking to buy, it's about $100, and it will work with all your windows and android stuff (with some simple software).

So, Spooner - you can guarantee the Garmin GLO will work with "...all your windows and android stuff (with some simple software)." Please enlighten us - what simple software?

I can attest to the fact a bluetooth gps has worked with OpenCPN running in a chroot environment on an android tablet. Will it work on every tablet regardless of OS? Hmmmm? Please explain what you mean about android gps "sucks". By the way, you have not said what platform you are using - a tablet, computer, android, Windows or DOS?

armido

[Spoooner]

Sorry I can't be more help with specifics, but android (galaxy s2 skyrocket) gps sucks means it simply won't hold a signal, and it has trouble getting signals in places my regular meridian color (magellan) has no problem. Can I guarantee it will work? Not yet, I merely wanted people to know there is another option (and a fairly new one) besides going with built-in gps unit, as long as it has bluetooth. I will be getting one soon and I will post my results then.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Spoooner

Sorry I can't be more help with specifics, but android (galaxy s2 skyrocket) gps sucks means it simply won't hold a signal, and it has trouble getting signals in places my regular meridian color (magellan) has no problem. Can I guarantee it will work? Not yet, I merely wanted people to know there is another option (and a fairly new one) besides going with built-in gps unit, as long as it has bluetooth. I will be getting one soon and I will post my results then.

Check out the Dual GPS too.

[armido]

From the Xgps150 Dual site, here are the recommended, available marine navigation applications. I'm not going to research them my self, but worth considering: are they free, opensource programs; do they use vector charts desirable for offshore cruising, and are you required to purchase proprietary charts or "keys" that enable you to use available charts? Can these applications be used offline with your own charts? Although the site suggests the gps can be used with non-ipad devices, it is optimized to be used with an ipad. What impediments to unencumbered use with a non-ipad device possibly exist. This will most likely be discovered if it exists in the firmware...

The main problem with Apple devices is the user is limited to using Apple applications. Managing and customizing the system file structure is restricted. Want to keep all your music from different sources in one file system (folder), you can't. Only music downloaded from iTunes can be included in the provided folder.

Personally, I'd never buy an Apple product for these reasons. And, as much as I detest M.S. Windows, if linux/android weren't available I'd choose Windows over Apple devices and apps.

armido

Navionics Marine family of apps
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