Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-03-2020, 15:26   #1321
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 31
Re: WeatherFax ...

Here’s an example of a output from an iOS app (Windy). It’s too cluttered for our purposes, but the core info is not bad 1 line, wind speed and direction. Simple because the underlying info supplied by the navigation chart is important to us. Click on the image to display....

Click image for larger version

Name:	23B8C3C8-C5A0-4CC3-93EE-BAD6E4D24E95.jpg
Views:	100
Size:	396.0 KB
ID:	210845
BILLY_BUDD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-03-2020, 16:08   #1322
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 50
Re: WeatherFax ...

Here is a video with a few notes on this idea. https://youtu.be/XBOFrmYvUdE

As for the display, i would recommend numbers for the wind direction, ie 315 rather than NW.

We also see in the video that OpenCPN grib viewer has wind barb feathers on the wrong side. The ones shown are for southern hemisphere. Granted this is a strange convention, but likely worth following since met agencies around the world use it. Namely back to the wind, feathers are on the low pressure side... i also know of a few navigators that use the concept in reading weather maps.
DavidBurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-03-2020, 17:50   #1323
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 31
Re: WeatherFax ...

David! An excellent demo of the possibilities.....Chuck Wargo
BILLY_BUDD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-03-2020, 18:52   #1324
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: oriental
Boat: crowther trimaran 33
Posts: 4,449
Re: WeatherFax ...

Maybe we can train AI to interpret weatherfax images and the AI could redraw the map making corrections...

This is basically outside the scope of the plugin.
seandepagnier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-03-2020, 17:49   #1325
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 31
Re: WeatherFax ...

Well apparently Sean doesn’t feel this idea has much utility, or if it does, he doesn’t feel it is appropriate for Weatherfax. It does overlap GRIB strategies, but is more data frugal. (I think the video errantly inferred an entire grib vector field might be generated in this manner, though I am fairly certain that was not the point)

Sean has done great work with Weatherfax to his credit.

As an aside, I’ve used it very successfully to overlay USACE hydrographic surveys (Fathometry) of ICW and many class 1 and lesser inlets to great advantage from a piloting perspective. Thank You. Sean

But, that begs the question. Where to from here? Drop it, or discus the merits of the method in a should OpenCPN or shouldn’t it and should we continue with the definition? I’ve some opinions but prefer to hear from others.

Doesn’t OpenCPN user community to accomplish this by way of crowd endorsement? The idea could easily die on the vine there as well in that deliberative process.

Comments?
BILLY_BUDD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-03-2020, 18:18   #1326
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 50
Re: WeatherFax ...

I have to say that i agree with Sean. I think this can be done manually just fine.

My response was to answer the question if it were to be done, what
might it look like, and to indeed answer specific questions presented to me. I was not proposing the function myself.

You are right about the grib background. This procedure is something that is used in reading a graphic weather map. Nothing to do with gribs, other than we can use the gribs to test the formula. Again, it is a crucial skill to have, but easily done by hand without an app or plugin.

I can change the title of the video and leave it as a demo of how to do this... or just make a new one.

As far as what happens to the idea, we might keep in mind that we can always do just what was done in the video, namely load the model grib on top of the map we want to read, analysis or forecast, and that way see what the winds are supposed to be. The only time we really need this manual analysis is when we do not have model data, or we have a case where the isobars of the models do not agree with the maps. In such a case we would defer to the maps, and then need to figure the winds. The table in our book solves this very well without calculations.

Getting the wind feathers on the conventional side of the barbs in another issue, and i would recommend fixing that.... meaning put it on a list for when the hood is open the next time. Probably not worth a lot of extra work on its own.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BILLY_BUDD View Post
Well apparently Sean doesn’t feel this idea has much utility, or if it does, he doesn’t feel it is appropriate for Weatherfax. It does overlap GRIB strategies, but is more data frugal. (I think the video errantly inferred an entire grib vector field might be generated in this manner, though I am fairly certain that was not the point)

Sean has done great work with Weatherfax to his credit.

As an aside, I’ve used it very successfully to overlay USACE hydrographic surveys (Fathometry) of ICW and many class 1 and lesser inlets to great advantage from a piloting Thank You. Sean

But, that begs the question. Where to from here? Drop it, or discus the merits of the method in a should OpenCPN or shouldn’t it and should we continue with the definition? I’ve some opinions but prefer to hear from others.

Doesn’t OpenCPN user community accomplish this by way of crowd endorsement? The idea could easily die on the vine there as well in that deliberative process.

Comments?
DavidBurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-03-2020, 19:38   #1327
Registered User
 
rgleason's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Boat: 1981 Bristol 32 Sloop
Posts: 17,996
Images: 2
Re: WeatherFax ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by boat_alexandra View Post
Maybe we can train AI to interpret weatherfax images and the AI could redraw the map making corrections...

This is basically outside the scope of the plugin.

Sean is absolutely right about this. It can be totally independent. What is needed is a way of adopting a drawing/measuring tool to also calculate a value and show it.


That could be a very simple plugin or it could be included with ocpn_draw for example. I kind of think the first option is better.
rgleason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2020, 04:36   #1328
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Austria
Posts: 320
Re: WeatherFax ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
Sean is absolutely right about this. It can be totally independent. What is needed is a way of adopting a drawing/measuring tool to also calculate a value and show it.


That could be a very simple plugin or it could be included with ocpn_draw for example. I kind of think the first option is better.
I agree, a simple additional menu option to the measurement tool whenever the weatherfax-pi is activated would be a valuable tool. No need to draw feather or the like - just a simple dialog showing the numbers.
My2cent -
skipperearly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-03-2020, 06:32   #1329
Registered User
 
rgleason's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Boat: 1981 Bristol 32 Sloop
Posts: 17,996
Images: 2
Re: WeatherFax ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipperearly View Post
I agree, a simple additional menu option to the measurement tool whenever the weatherfax-pi is activated would be a valuable tool. No need to draw feather or the like - just a simple dialog showing the numbers.
My2cent

I don't believe this will ever be code inside of OpenCPN, the main program, because it is too ancillary. Therefore the code for the "Measurement" tool will have to be copied and made into a very small plugin, which then gets tested and perhaps after awhile gets incorporated into weatherfax as a second icon.


Now you need to find a volunteer programmer to do this. It is a useful, simple project.
rgleason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-03-2020, 11:57   #1330
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 31
Re: WeatherFax ...

Roger on the Programmer.

Is there a process? Maybe a OpenCPN programmer society....please excuse my naivete'. Maybe a more generic thread I could post to? This thread might not have enough visibility to gain the necessary programmer bandwidth....
BILLY_BUDD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-03-2020, 13:53   #1331
Registered User

Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,253
Re: WeatherFax ...

Billy_Budd ...

Probably not the right person to respond but I did study the video of what was needed. The measurement tool part is easy but the challenge is the wind direction. Calculation of the angle could quickly become complicated. Do we allow 10 degrees for friction? At what latitude? Open-water?

While downloading a weatherfax is it more sensible to download a grib file at the same time?

Mike
Rasbats is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-03-2020, 00:05   #1332
Moo
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 804
Re: WeatherFax ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasbats View Post
Billy_Budd ...

Probably not the right person to respond but I did study the video of what was needed. The measurement tool part is easy but the challenge is the wind direction. Calculation of the angle could quickly become complicated. Do we allow 10 degrees for friction? At what latitude? Open-water?

While downloading a weatherfax is it more sensible to download a grib file at the same time?

Mike
Agree that this part would be quite complicated as the plugin won't know the flow direction of the isobars. So would require two lines to be drawn; one along the isobars and the perpendicular measurement. It could of course assume that the user has drawn the measurement line perpendicular.

One point. The fax could well be received by radio by somebody with no way to download GRIBs. And I suspect this may have been the point of the OP...

Personally I am happy to look at a weather chart and eyeball it for windspeed and direction.
Moo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-03-2020, 04:20   #1333
Registered User
 
rgleason's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Boat: 1981 Bristol 32 Sloop
Posts: 17,996
Images: 2
Re: WeatherFax ...

Billy Budd are you at Ft Racheal Marina, Mystic?
rgleason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-03-2020, 05:23   #1334
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 31
Re: WeatherFax ...

Rick,

I am at Boating on the Thames...up the Thames River...abeam of the Nautilus Museum, just north of Connecticut College...
BILLY_BUDD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-03-2020, 10:03   #1335
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 31
Re: WeatherFax ...

Does this help? The flows are directional...so measure into low pressure and out of high pressure....and derive you hemisphere from you position....
BILLY_BUDD is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
paracelle

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale: SSB, Tuner, Amp, WeatherFax Palarran Classifieds Archive 7 19-03-2011 08:22
Help with WeatherFax and SeaTTY desierto Navigation 2 12-12-2008 21:36
Basic Weatherfax reception Tnflakbait Marine Electronics 3 23-09-2008 22:55
How do I set myself up with weatherfax? tracker_46 Marine Electronics 4 12-10-2006 15:51
Weatherfax Recommendations Please Salacia Marine Electronics 3 03-07-2005 14:28

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:23.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.