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Old 08-09-2018, 08:30   #1
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Route and Mark Manager Change Proposal

I use the Route Manager a lot, and find it doesn't work for me as well as I would like it to.


Here is current RMM:
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I don't understand the current use case for the "From <-> To" column. In particular, sorting it doesn't yield any useful results for me.


In this example I have removed that column and replaced it with "From" and "To" as separate, sortable, columns, and added "Departure" and "ETA/ETE" columns:


Click image for larger version

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Now I can sort by From/To, as well as Departure.



In this example I tag all of my routes for my summer vacation as "2018" and then filter on that and sort on Departure to form an itinerary:


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Do these seem like useful changes?


Chas Douglass
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:58   #2
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Re: Route and Mark Manager Change Proposal

Filtering on names is already implemented in the current master codebase.

Departure date seems like a good addition for the workflow you describe.

ETA is a) dynamically calculated and b) IMHO a nonsense in the current implementation

Separating To and From IMHO won't be much more helpful than what you get from the combined column we have now. If anything, I would consider using it, maybe optionally, for the filtering besides the name.

Pavel
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Old 08-09-2018, 09:07   #3
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Re: Route and Mark Manager Change Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by nohal View Post
Filtering on names is already implemented in the current master codebase.

Departure date seems like a good addition for the workflow you describe.

ETA is a) dynamically calculated and b) IMHO a nonsense in the current implementation

Separating To and From IMHO won't be much more helpful than what you get from the combined column we have now. If anything, I would consider using it, maybe optionally, for the filtering besides the name.

Pavel

Thanks for the feedback.



I realize you can filter on names, but I find it more useful to sort on "From" most of the time, to find all the routes that start somewhere in particular.


Why do you consider ETA "nonsense in the current implementation"?



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Old 08-09-2018, 09:22   #4
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Re: Route and Mark Manager Change Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by SerialHobbyist View Post
Thanks for the feedback.



I realize you can filter on names, but I find it more useful to sort on "From" most of the time, to find all the routes that start somewhere in particular.
And that is exactly what at least I get in the release version already now as the sort is alphabetical. I would probably need to be a bit more creative looking for a use-case for the To column.
And the sorting is broken in the current master code.
Quote:
Why do you consider ETA "nonsense in the current implementation"?
Because it is way oversimplified, usable just to set an estimated average speed over the whole route and takes into account only direct distance between the routepoints. It maybe might be considered somewhat useful for motorboats. But hardly for sailing...
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Old 08-09-2018, 18:26   #5
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Re: Route and Mark Manager Change Proposal

Quote:
Why do you consider ETA "nonsense in the current implementation"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nohal View Post
And that is exactly what at least I get in the release version already now as the sort is alphabetical. I would probably need to be a bit more creative looking for a use-case for the To column.
And the sorting is broken in the current master code.

Because it is way oversimplified, usable just to set an estimated average speed over the whole route and takes into account only direct distance between the routepoints. It maybe might be considered somewhat useful for motorboats. But hardly for sailing...

There is a potential plugin which would be very useful for planning, particularly powerboats, but also sail, which starts with this information plus current.
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Old 09-09-2018, 04:18   #6
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Re: Route and Mark Manager Change Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by SerialHobbyist View Post
... I use the Route Manager a lot ...
Me too. In an old version of Capn there was an option to combine two or more existing routes to "stitch" them together into a new path. Saved time in many cases. Is this possible in the OpenCPN route manager?
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Old 09-09-2018, 05:15   #7
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Re: Route and Mark Manager Change Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by kerrydeare View Post
Me too. In an old version of Capn there was an option to combine two or more existing routes to "stitch" them together into a new path. Saved time in many cases. Is this possible in the OpenCPN route manager?
Yes, there is. https://opencpn.org/wiki/dokuwiki/do...e#extend_route There sure is room for improvement in what and how it does.
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Old 09-09-2018, 11:06   #8
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Re: Route and Mark Manager Change Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by nohal View Post
And that is exactly what at least I get in the release version already now as the sort is alphabetical.
Unless you reverse the route, in which case the name doesn't change.


Quote:
I would probably need to be a bit more creative looking for a use-case for the To column.
Sorting on the "To" column probably isn't terribly useful -- but that's what the current code does.


Quote:
And the sorting is broken in the current master code.
That seemed to be an easy fix.

Quote:
Because it is way oversimplified, usable just to set an estimated average speed over the whole route and takes into account only direct distance between the routepoints. It maybe might be considered somewhat useful for motorboats. But hardly for sailing...
I'm a sailor and I find it useful. Certainly there are caveats, but some planning is better than no planning. I believe there is an open request to add ETA to RMM, but perhaps it hasn't been implemented because of your objections. Perhaps adding ETA to RMM would provide the impetus to improve it's calculations.


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Old 09-09-2018, 11:12   #9
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Re: Route and Mark Manager Change Proposal

I'm getting lost here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SerialHobbyist View Post
Unless you reverse the route, in which case the name doesn't change.
How should reversing a route change it's name? The "From" and "To" properties do get switched, so sorting on the combined column again does work.
Quote:
Sorting on the "To" column probably isn't terribly useful -- but that's what the current code does.
There currently is no To column, how can the current code sort on it? Or did I misunderstand what you write somehow?
Quote:
That seemed to be an easy fix.
That sure is an easy fix, just has to be done.
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Old 09-09-2018, 12:19   #10
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Re: Route and Mark Manager Change Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by nohal View Post
I'm getting lost here.


How should reversing a route change it's name? The "From" and "To" properties do get switched, so sorting on the combined column again does work.

There currently is no To column, how can the current code sort on it? Or did I misunderstand what you write somehow?

Sorry, I remembered that choosing the sort on the combined field called a routine NAMED "SortRoutesOnTo()" but that routine really sorts the 2nd column which effectively sorts on "From".


So you don't like "From" and "To", what about "Departure" and "ETA"?


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Old 09-09-2018, 12:25   #11
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Re: Route and Mark Manager Change Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
There is a potential plugin which would be very useful for planning, particularly powerboats, but also sail, which starts with this information plus current.

Sorry, what is a "potential" plugin? Should I focus on that rather than looking at the base code?


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Old 09-09-2018, 12:36   #12
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Re: Route and Mark Manager Change Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by SerialHobbyist View Post
Sorry, I remembered that choosing the sort on the combined field called a routine NAMED "SortRoutesOnTo()" but that routine really sorts the 2nd column which effectively sorts on "From".


So you don't like "From" and "To", what about "Departure" and "ETA"?


Chas
I do like "departure", I do not, personally, think anything good about the calculated ETA as implemented now (as you have sure already seen).
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Old 09-09-2018, 13:53   #13
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Re: Route and Mark Manager Change Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by SerialHobbyist View Post
Sorry, what is a "potential" plugin? Should I focus on that rather than looking at the base code?
Chas

Focus on the base code, but consider this discussion please:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...in-199079.html


Small steps needed to get to the goals.

bdbcat and walt want something useful for planning with current informed routing plugin along a given course.


That would be one approach, the other would also optimize the route itself, and be an more advanced version of weather_routing.
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Old 12-09-2018, 07:16   #14
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Re: Route and Mark Manager Change Proposal

Quote:
Originally Posted by nohal View Post
Yes, there is. https://opencpn.org/wiki/dokuwiki/do...e#extend_route There sure is room for improvement in what and how it does.
Worked well enuf for me with a few minor adjustments. The combined route I was trying for had nearly 200 waypoints, so this helped a lot.
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