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Old 09-07-2020, 08:54   #421
bcn
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Re: Radar plugin v5.0.0 released

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseus7 View Post
My scanner cable setup alternatives as I see it are:

* The scanner ethernet goes directly to the PC
* The scanner goes to RI10, which goes to the PC
* The scanner goes to RI10, then to the router, then to the PC
* the scanner goes to the router, then to the PC

Whatever fits you best. All alternatives do work.


Started at home with the radar directly hooked to the PC.
At install first to a Simrad plotter for testing, then next to the RI10 and the plotter hooked to that one.
The final install is Radar --> Router --> PC and RI10 in parallel --> Simrad

Well, there is even a second router in front of the RI10 which feeds the fixed built-in NUC that works as stationary OCPN system.
The Simrad plotter and the two OCPN installs work perfectly in parallel.
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Old 09-07-2020, 09:02   #422
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Re: Radar plugin v5.0.0 released

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseus7 View Post
Dear Hakan; many thanks for your software development and very informative posts throughout this forum and on OpenCPN. Thanks to you, I hopefully soon will have set up what I believe will be a nice system at quite an affordable price. I purchased a used B&G 4G radar, came with the RI10 interface, scanner cable & network cable as well.
Quote:
Thanks for the kind word although my code development part is rather limited. Kees and Douwe are the heads here.
Now for my questions; would be great if you could be so kind as to answer them:

Info: I have a modem/router on the boat as well; and a Sitex heading sensor on the autopilot system from which I believe I can source the heading data for overlay/MARPA. Running it all on a Win10 Pro. Also running Navionics on a separate monitor on the same PC.

My scanner cable setup alternatives as I see it are:

* The scanner ethernet goes directly to the PC
* The scanner goes to RI10, which goes to the PC
* The scanner goes to RI10, then to the router, then to the PC
* the scanner goes to the router, then to the PC
Quote:
Either of these will work as long as you're talking about the router's switch and wire connections. the wifi part is normally not a good idea for the radar scanner.
If you want to transfer the heading to the scanner, see below, you've to use the RI10
And the alternatives for the heading data are:

* The heading data is routed via USB to the PC
* The heading data is routed via ethernet to RI10
* The heading data goes to the router, then to the PC
Quote:
The first important task here is you can transfer the heading from your Si-tex? Via NMEA2000 (N2k) or NMEA0183? In the N2k case you can connect it to the RI10 and give a heading to the scanner and from there in to the OCPN. From OCPN you can transfer that to Navionics via IP-UDP unless you are not sharing the same serials between OCPN and Navionics.
If you have heading via NMEA0183 from the Si-Tex you've to go via serial-USB to the PC and use it in OCPN or Navionics. But not at the same time. The IP-USB alternative is a very good alternative if possible. If you can get it to the router it's easy to share between many apps and gadgets.
Now, given that I:

* would like to see map overlay and MARPA on OpenCPN
* & that I would like to be able to send routing data to the autopilot
* & that I would like both OpenCPN and Navionics to receive Heading Data
Quote:
With a heading present on OCPN, direct or via the scanner, overlay and (M)ARPA will work just fine.
The connection between OCPN and the autopilot can be tricky or simple. Depends on the type and supported data protocol. NMEA0183 is simple. N2k is more job and depends on the AP type. IP is probably not an alternative?
Which scanner cable connection and heading data setup alternatives do you believe will work best for me?

Again, thanks a lot for everything.
You've a lot alternatives. That's very good and it would be possible to find a good solution. Try to make it simple and as less connection points as possible. I hope I'm not confusing more than explain? The AP connection is unclear and will probably give most headache. More info is needed.
Håkan
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Old 09-07-2020, 09:05   #423
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Re: Radar plugin v5.0.0 released

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Originally Posted by bcn View Post
Whatever fits you best. All alternatives do work.


Started at home with the radar directly hooked to the PC.
At install first to a Simrad plotter for testing, then next to the RI10 and the plotter hooked to that one.
The final install is Radar --> Router --> PC and RI10 in parallel --> Simrad

Well, there is even a second router in front of the RI10 which feeds the fixed built-in NUC that works as stationary OCPN system.
The Simrad plotter and the two OCPN installs work perfectly in parallel.
But I don't have a Simrad plotter for initial testing, I only have a military grade tablet PC and a second monitor.

Then the question I guess becomes becomes; which setup do you feel is the best (in terms of security/performance)
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Old 09-07-2020, 09:16   #424
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Re: Radar plugin v5.0.0 released

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseus7 View Post
But I don't have a Simrad plotter for initial testing, I only have a military grade tablet PC and a second monitor.

Then the question I guess becomes becomes; which setup do you feel is the best (in terms of security/performance)

I started with just the PC directly connected. There is a photo in this thread.
The Simrad is mainly used for the sounder which runs from it.


There are no performance bottlenecks while not using WiFi connections.
And don't stream HD videos over the same network perhaps...


Hubert
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Old 09-07-2020, 09:19   #425
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Re: Radar plugin v5.0.0 released

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakan View Post
You've a lot alternatives. That's very good and it would be possible to find a good solution. Try to make it simple and as less connection points as possible. I hope I'm not confusing more than explain? The AP connection is unclear and will probably give most headache. More info is needed.
Håkan
Dear Håkan, again thanks a lot. Let me start by answering your questions first:

* I'm not going to use wifi for scanner data transfer, will do that via Ethernet.
* Yes, I would definitely like to get heading data to the scanner.
* Sitex protocol is NMEA0183 . I do know the pin breakout for the Sitex plug, the mystery for me is how I punch that onto an RJ45 for router connection.

Now the questions are:

* Do I gather correctly in saying that I have to use RI10 for chart overlay/Marpa on OpenCPN?
* Do I gather correctly in saying that if I can get the Sitex heading data to the router, all apps can live merrily together everafter?
* and does that mean I'll have to use both RI10 and the router?
* Would you happen to know/or have any tips for how I can get the RS232 output of Sitex (which I had converted to USB) to punch on the RJ45?

Again, thank you.
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Old 09-07-2020, 10:14   #426
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Re: Radar plugin v5.0.0 released

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseus7 View Post
Dear Håkan, again thanks a lot. Let me start by answering your questions first:

* I'm not going to use wifi for scanner data transfer, will do that via Ethernet.
* Yes, I would definitely like to get heading data to the scanner.
* Sitex protocol is NMEA0183 . I do know the pin breakout for the Sitex plug, the mystery for me is how I punch that onto an RJ45 for router connection.
Quote:
Since your Si-Tex is NMEA0183 you can't go to the scanner via RI10. You've to go to the PC and OCPN via a serial to USB converter. NMEA0183 is RS232/422 and has nothing to do with a RJ45 what's normally used for IP-network connections.
Then the OCPN will have a heading suitable for the radar scanner.
Now the questions are:

* Do I gather correctly in saying that I have to use RI10 for chart overlay/Marpa on OpenCPN?
Quote:
No, since you don't have a N2k heading you don't need the RI10. You can wire dirket to the PC via a RJ45. See the radar manual for pin outs. (The US-type connection)
* Do I gather correctly in saying that if I can get the Sitex heading data to the router, all apps can live merrily together everafter?
Quote:
No, for that you need a direct IP connection from the Si-Tex that you don't have. See above.
* and does that mean I'll have to use both RI10 and the router?
Quote:
You will not need neither of them. The router could do only if you want to share the scanner signal to other PCs
* Would you happen to know/or have any tips for how I can get the RS232 output of Sitex (which I had converted to USB) to punch on the RJ45?
Quote:
No, that's a very special gadget to buy and you would not need it.
Again, thank you.
Come back if I'm unclear
Håkan
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Old 09-07-2020, 10:36   #427
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Re: Radar plugin v5.0.0 released

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakan View Post
Come back if I'm unclear
Håkan
Again, many thanks. Your answer is very clear but leads to some other questions for the less tech savvy like me

* "You can wire direct to the PC via a RJ45. See the radar manual for pin outs. (The US-type connection)" - well the scanner data cable is already RJ45, bought the radar from the US, can't I just plug that to the PC? Do I need to re-wire it?

* On OpenCPN, any chance of "exporting" the heading data (obtained from the Sitex) to the Navionics chartplotter on the same PC, now that only one of them can use it originally? (If at all only one can use it, of course I would prefer the OpenCPN, but would be great if I could sync both).

Thank you!
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Old 09-07-2020, 12:35   #428
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Re: Radar plugin v5.0.0 released

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseus7 View Post
Again, many thanks. Your answer is very clear but leads to some other questions for the less tech savvy like me

* "You can wire direct to the PC via a RJ45. See the radar manual for pin outs. (The US-type connection)" - well the scanner data cable is already RJ45, bought the radar from the US, can't I just plug that to the PC? Do I need to re-wire it?
Quote:
Yes, of course, very good. I f so use as it is. Power on the scanner according to the manual and once the heading and position is in OCPN start radar_pi and select a 4G as radar A (and B)
* On OpenCPN, any chance of "exporting" the heading data (obtained from the Sitex) to the Navionics chartplotter on the same PC, now that only one of them can use it originally? (If at all only one can use it, of course I would prefer the OpenCPN, but would be great if I could sync both).
Quote:
Once you've get the heading and other signals, like GPS, to OCPN make a connection in OCPN to output to a network connection as UDP e.g. port 10110 and you can use that on every other app on the PC or other things connected to the wifi router, if used. In that way you can let OCPN take care of all serials and spread it out via network to other apps and devices. OCPN is a very powerful multiplexer.
Thank you!

Håkan
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Old 09-07-2020, 13:28   #429
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Re: Radar plugin v5.0.0 released

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Originally Posted by Hakan View Post
Håkan
Truly appreciated Hakan, thank you for everything.
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Old 10-07-2020, 01:02   #430
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Re: Radar plugin v5.0.0 released

Note that the SI-10 has an additional function: it improves the radiation characteristics of the radar, causing the cable to interfere less with radio transmissions etc. It also functions as an extra protection for your computer in case you have a nearby lightning strike (I guess in a direct strike the isolation transformers won't help much.)


I would go radar -> SI-10 -> PC or radar -> SI-10 -> switch -> PC
where the latter is needed if you want to put more ethernet devices on your boat network that you want to talk to the PC. For instance, if you put a WiFi or 3G/4G/5G access point in so that the PC can access the internet now and then to retrieve new maps and OpenCPN updates.


Nav data over NMEA0183 goes straight into the PC via a USB converter (or may be it has a real RS-232 port?)


This will still provide radar overlay as long as you have heading input (compass) and location (GNSS = GPS and/or newer constellations).
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Old 10-07-2020, 09:33   #431
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Re: Radar plugin v5.0.0 released

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Originally Posted by merrimac View Post
I would go radar -> SI-10 -> PC or radar -> SI-10 -> switch -> PC
where the latter is needed if you want to put more ethernet devices on your boat network that you want to talk to the PC. For instance, if you put a WiFi or 3G/4G/5G access point in so that the PC can access the internet now and then to retrieve new maps and OpenCPN updates.


Nav data over NMEA0183 goes straight into the PC via a USB converter (or may be it has a real RS-232 port?)


This will still provide radar overlay as long as you have heading input (compass) and location (GNSS = GPS and/or newer constellations).
Thank you @Merrimac, would definitely would like to use RI 10 if I can, but the problem is that @Hakan states that I cannot do chart overlay/MARPA on OpenCPN if I use the RI-10; as I would then not be able to get the NMEA0183 sentences from my Sitex heading unit (linked to the PC) to the 4G Radar scanner if I do that - am I missing something here, is there a way to do this?

Btw, my router is actually a dual 4G card Modem/router combo which also has wireless.

Thanks to everybody, big installation day is tomorrow, hopefully
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Old 10-07-2020, 12:04   #432
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Re: Radar plugin v5.0.0 released

re: "Hakan states that I cannot do chart overlay/MARPA on OpenCPN if I use the RI-10"

No, in that case a bad description form me.
The chart overlay is not at all connected to the use of RI10. To go direct to the PC or via RI10 is just two ways of a network connection of the scanner. Merrimac's discussion about lightning could be relevant though. But since you already have the RJ45 connection on your scanner cable you may want to start with that to the PC for simple initial tests. Next step may be to consider a safer connection.
Håkan
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Old 10-07-2020, 13:00   #433
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Re: Radar plugin v5.0.0 released

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakan View Post
re: "Hakan states that I cannot do chart overlay/MARPA on OpenCPN if I use the RI-10"

No, in that case a bad description form me.
The chart overlay is not at all connected to the use of RI10. To go direct to the PC or via RI10 is just two ways of a network connection of the scanner. Merrimac's discussion about lightning could be relevant though. But since you already have the RJ45 connection on your scanner cable you may want to start with that to the PC for simple initial tests. Next step may be to consider a safer connection.
Håkan
Interference isolation & lightning protection both sound very enticing; so onto the next steps in the puzzle for me:

1. If I go scanner to RI10 to router to PC; and connect the Sitex heading data directly to the PC via an RS232 to USB converter; will the scanner & OpenCPN obtain the chart overlay/MARPA function?

2. If not; will going directly from the RI10 to the PC, eliminating the router intermediary, serve that purpose?

3. If both solutions happen to be unfeasible, will connecting the NMEA0183 heading feed to the RI10 work? (Mountain to climb, no idea how to do that given what Hakan said ie NMEA0183 not being an IP protocol)

4. All of you mention a "switch"; I presume the router can act as one; or am I mistaken?

Thanks a lot to everybody.
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Old 10-07-2020, 13:14   #434
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Re: Radar plugin v5.0.0 released

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysseus7 View Post
Interference isolation & lightning protection both sound very enticing; so onto the next steps in the puzzle for me:

1. If I go scanner to RI10 to router to PC; and connect the Sitex heading data directly to the PC via an RS232 to USB converter; will the scanner & OpenCPN obtain the chart overlay/MARPA function?

Quote:
Yes. The overlay and the (M)ARPA function is made by the radar_pi plugin.
2. If not; will going directly from the RI10 to the PC, eliminating the router intermediary, serve that purpose?

3. If both solutions happen to be unfeasible, will connecting the NMEA0183 heading feed to the RI10 work? (Mountain to climb, no idea how to do that given what Hakan said ie NMEA0183 not being an IP protocol)

4. All of you mention a "switch"; I presume the router can act as one; or am I mistaken?
Quote:
No it's correct, most wifi routers has also a switch for wired connections. Often four RJ45 ports. But there are also switches without the wifi router function.
Thanks a lot to everybody.
Good luck
Håkan
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Old 10-07-2020, 13:32   #435
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Re: Radar plugin v5.0.0 released

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Originally Posted by Hakan View Post
Good luck
Håkan
Thanks a lot to everybody; all of this is great information.

Now it's execution time; probably installing the goods tomorrow, I hope I won't need to ask further questions after initialization; I know there's a vast amount of info on the OpenCPN wiki & Radar Pi manual; most of which I have already read.

All the best.
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