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Old 30-05-2022, 11:11   #1
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NOAA MBTiles

Have NOAA MBTiles gone away? Nothing downloads from that chart directory anymore.
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Old 30-05-2022, 11:17   #2
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Re: NOAA MBTiles

My guess, part of the shift away from raster products.

https://nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/upda...ated-services/
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Old 30-05-2022, 13:53   #3
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Re: NOAA MBTiles

The NOAA MBTiles seem to be gone for good. There is a new thing called "NOAA Chart Display Service" covering only the East US Coast and not having any sort of automatically processable catalogs.
The chart downloader catalogs used by OpenCPN are now updated to point to these tilesets as linked from https://distribution.charts.noaa.gov/ncds/index.html, but I will not actively monitor these for updates and changes given there is no automatizable way to do it.
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Old 30-05-2022, 18:52   #4
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Re: NOAA MBTiles

What changes should we be making to the Manual?


1. Remove references to RNC Charts?
2. Remove RNC Charts from numerous locations in the Chart Pages?
3. Eliminate RNC Chart information?


These changes are rather drastic, at the moment undefined, and perhaps premature.
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Old 30-05-2022, 19:50   #5
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Re: NOAA MBTiles

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
What changes should we be making to the Manual?
....
I think RNCs are going the way of decrypted CM93 - which is to say that updates won’t be available but the latest version will be in use for a long time, which means the manual has to keep them around.

Maybe just a note in the manual that this is the case, along with a statement that updates may fail at any time subject to the whims of various governments ending the production and distribution of RNCs? Maybe with a link to the US and other government websites explaining the reasoning?

https://nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/char...al-charts.html

https://nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/upda...ated-services/
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Old 30-05-2022, 20:09   #6
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Re: NOAA MBTiles

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
1. Remove references to RNC Charts?
2. Remove RNC Charts from numerous locations in the Chart Pages?
3. Eliminate RNC Chart information?
I'm going to start typing before bothering to engage brain or look things up, but...

RNC is not specific to the US; other countries may distribute charts in this format. As this is more a NOAA change, it makes sense to limit changes to the manual to those that are NOAA-specific.

It's also worth determining the specifics of the change. For example, the chart downloader in my copy (still 5.6.0) is happily able to download NOAA raster charts. If this is being retired, is it being retired by region? This information might be convenient to live in a banner near the chart downloader section, or the section discussing what charts are available.
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Old 30-05-2022, 20:45   #7
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Re: NOAA MBTiles

NZ had also previously announced that they will be removing raster products, there are several threads here on CF on the topic. I thought the withdrawal was supposed to occur about now, but following the links in those threads NZ has changed the language to say that the products will “be removed at some time in the future.”

The full withdrawal of NOAA raster products is supposed to occur by 2025, but different products are going at various times between now and then (I think basically if it is an ancillary product in which they would have to invest time/money to keep it going they won’t).

Doesn’t affect O as much, but Canada is also in the process and I have used their BSB charts in O.
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Old 30-05-2022, 21:41   #8
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Re: NOAA MBTiles

Just did a quick check, since the LNMs have been filled with "last edition" notices, to see what the impact might be.

Taking the example of Half Moon Bay, chart 18682, it was to be canceled on 06-APR-22. On NOAA's chart locator page that chart is no longer available; you have to go to the "historical charts" site to fetch a copy.

I also don't see it listed in the OpenCPN chart downloader, so some holes may be appearing there. Currently for the "RNC Product Catalog CA" there appear to be 62 charts. I shall have to check again after the next cancellation to see if that number drops. One to watch might be 18626, Elk to Fort Bragg, due to be canceled June 1st.
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Old 31-05-2022, 05:30   #9
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Re: NOAA MBTiles

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason View Post
What changes should we be making to the Manual?


1. Remove references to RNC Charts?
2. Remove RNC Charts from numerous locations in the Chart Pages?
3. Eliminate RNC Chart information?


These changes are rather drastic, at the moment undefined, and perhaps premature.
Rick, please do not touch anything.
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Old 31-05-2022, 05:50   #10
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Re: NOAA MBTiles

Sounds good to me.
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Old 31-05-2022, 06:20   #11
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Re: NOAA MBTiles

The Hydrograhic Offices are phasing out RNCs - correct.
A long process. Raster charts will be along for one or two decades more. At least. One will have to pay attention about coverages and updates. Looking at the ENC alternatives.



Add those "faked ENCs" where a raster screen shot gets derived from some (vector) ENC as a geo-referenced pixel chart, RNC. Raster mbTiles are another example.
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Old 31-05-2022, 06:37   #12
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Re: NOAA MBTiles

Raster Charts are the same as paper charts and will be mandatory to carry on board for many years to come. So until this is change in the shipping acts laws, you should keep as it is.
Thank you.
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Old 31-05-2022, 07:52   #13
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Re: NOAA MBTiles

I thought this change was made in the early 2000s. ENC/ECDIS are now required.

I don't work on a big ship though so can't verify.

Paper charts can still be printed from ENC for those that insist on them.
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Old 31-05-2022, 08:33   #14
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Re: NOAA MBTiles

Is NOAA ENC server down too?

https://gis.charttools.noaa.gov/arcg...vice/MapServer


Could not access any server machines. Please contact your system administrator”
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Old 31-05-2022, 09:32   #15
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Re: NOAA MBTiles

Quote:
Originally Posted by P_Dub View Post
Raster Charts are the same as paper charts and will be mandatory to carry on board for many years to come. So until this is change in the shipping acts laws, you should keep as it is.
Thank you.
Where? In the US the USCG re-defined the words "marine charts" as contained in 33CFR164.33 to include ENC charts displayed on an ECDIS system. That happened in 2002.

Quote:
In 2002, the Coast Guard certified the Electronic Chart Display and Information System (ECDIS) as meeting the nautical chart requirements in 33 CFR 164.33(a)(1), because it met the same navigational safety concerns as paper nautical charts.[14]

During this time, foreign government hydrographic offices also began producing ENCs.
https://www.federalregister.gov/docu...e-requirements
None of us, (or very, very few of us) in the recreational world actually have an ECDIS, but then in the US we also don't really have any carriage requirements.

Raster charts are already disappearing in the US and will be gone by 2025:

Quote:
All traditional NOAA paper nautical charts will be canceled by January 2025
NOAA has already started to cancel individual charts and will shut down all production and maintenance of traditional paper nautical charts and the associated raster chart products and services by January 2025.

Mariners and other users of nautical charts are encouraged to use the electronic navigational chart (NOAA ENC®), NOAA's premier nautical chart product.

Read more information about the Future of NOAA Charts.
https://www.nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/...er-charts.html
Canada is in the same boat, Phase 1 of the discontinuation of digital Raster Navigational Charts (RNC) has begun. The withdrawn raster charts no longer meet carriage requirements because they can no longer be updated.

In a more general world, the IMO, through the IHO say:

Quote:
What are official charts?
According to SOLAS V (see above), charts issued by or on the authority of a Government, authorizedHydrographic Office or other relevant government institutions are official and may be used to fulfil carriage requirements (provided they are kept up to date). (emphasis added)
https://iho.int/iho_pubs/standard/S-...inal_Clean.pdf
Since the governments in question are dropping raster chart production the "kept up to date" question becomes very relevant.

I don't disagree that raster charts, like CM93, will be with us for a long time, but rather than heads in the sand we should be preparing users for their disappearance and replacement with ENCs. Why keep repeating the Y2K or GPS clock rollover experience over and over? It's a brave new world and stuff becomes obsolete far faster than many of us would like, but become obsolete it does. Advance planning is far better than rear-view-mirror corrections.
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