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05-10-2021, 01:39
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Emsworth, UK
Boat: Alubat Ovni 395
Posts: 269
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The issue of route and waypoint name duplication
An issue that needs to be thought about is duplication of waypoint and route names. OpenCPN is unusual - maybe unique - in identifying these not by name but by the unique GUID. This allows multiple waypoints or routes with the same name.
But the other devices I know of expect unique names and if a waypoint or route is loaded duplicating an existing item, it is simply replaced. See the warning in my script description here.
So for true interoperability, we need a discussion on whether OpenCPN should enforce unique names.
I have a JavaScript that 'uniquifies' routepoints. So in one route the routepoints are changed to 001.1, 002.1 et seq. and in another they become 001.2, 002.2 et seq. Adding routepoints and re-running the script adds subscripts to the new routepoints using the subscript already in use for that route. But there are complications when a true waypoint is included in a route. It may or may not be a clone of the free-standing waypoint.
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05-10-2021, 08:15
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: SW UK
Boat: Moody 44
Posts: 86
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Re: The issue of route and waypoint name duplication
An advantage of unique IDs, is that renaming is never an issue.
Forcing unique names can make renaming awkward.
I'm not saying it's an issue, just pointing it out.
Currently when adding a new waypoint which is close to an existing one, we are asked if we'd like to use the existing waypoint. Maybe that feature could be extended to imported waypoints. That way you would only get duplicates after import if you say "no" and the problem would be eliminated at source.
John
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antipole
An issue that needs to be thought about is duplication of waypoint and route names. OpenCPN is unusual - maybe unique - in identifying these not by name but by the unique GUID. This allows multiple waypoints or routes with the same name.
But the other devices I know of expect unique names and if a waypoint or route is loaded duplicating an existing item, it is simply replaced. See the warning in my script description here.
So for true interoperability, we need a discussion on whether OpenCPN should enforce unique names.
I have a JavaScript that 'uniquifies' routepoints. So in one route the routepoints are changed to 001.1, 002.1 et seq. and in another they become 001.2, 002.2 et seq. Adding routepoints and re-running the script adds subscripts to the new routepoints using the subscript already in use for that route. But there are complications when a true waypoint is included in a route. It may or may not be a clone of the free-standing waypoint.
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06-10-2021, 01:49
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Emsworth, UK
Boat: Alubat Ovni 395
Posts: 269
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Transferring waypoints and routes
The most common requirement is to transfer waypoints and routes to or from another device. Making this possible should therefore be the first step in enhancing interoperability.
Transfers should be possible using a script in the JavaScript plugin. This has the advantage that it can easily be tailored to the individual user's requirements. However, there are deficiencies in the Waypoint API that severely restrict what can be done.
I have raised a request on FlySpray to address these. The changes required are minimal in my opinion. It would be great if they could be tacked on to OpenCPN v5.5.
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06-10-2021, 08:49
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: British Columbia
Boat: Sceptre 41
Posts: 1,928
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Re: Interoperability between OpenCPN(s) & Devices
Related to the transfer of waypoints and routes to other devices:
As noted earlier, I transfer (via rou/rat files) waypoints and routes from OpenCPN to my Furuno chartplotter. As with many chartplotters, the Furuno has several limitations: (i) limited number of wpt symbols (many which, by the way, do NOT have obvious equivalents in OpenCPN), (ii) colour scheme that only partially matches OpenCPN (e.g., OPCPN black is yellow on Furuno), (iii) a limit of 6 characters for wpt name, and (iv) limit of 13 characters for comments. (There are also other differences, but the above are what I have to deal with.)
It would be great if OpenCPN had a plugin that would make the above changes and save to rou/rat file. (Currently, I use GPSUTILITY to make wholesale changes and save as rou/rat. )
ALSO: Unless I've missed something, I cannot change symbols, colours, etc of wpts for many wpts at once within OpenCPN. This would seem a useful capability, a separate issue from transferring routes and wpts.
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06-10-2021, 10:39
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Boat: 1981 Bristol 32 Sloop
Posts: 17,532
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Re: Interoperability between OpenCPN(s) & Devices
GPS Utility is mentioned in the Furuno "Converting Waypoints to TZtouch3" youtube.
They are using GPX. Also I believe that bdbcat has made adjustments for the length of the names etc, and provided a Furuno checkbox for transfers. Not knowing anything about Furuno rou or rat files I found this thread on Furuno Waypoint Backup
Your information is good, but we would need a more detailed specification which uses the existing Furuno settings, if the transfer back and forth can be made better. It would probably be part of a plugin I think.
Also https://www.furunousa.com/-/media/si...ing_guide1.pdf
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06-10-2021, 11:04
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#36
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: British Columbia
Boat: Sceptre 41
Posts: 1,928
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Re: Interoperability between OpenCPN(s) & Devices
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason
GPS Utility is mentioned in the Furuno "Converting Waypoints to TZtouch3" youtube.
They are using GPX. Also I believe that bdbcat has made adjustments for the length of the names etc, and provided a Furuno checkbox for transfers. Not knowing anything about Furuno rou or rat files I found this thread on Furuno Waypoint Backup
Your information is good, but we would need a more detailed specification which uses the existing Furuno settings, if the transfer back and forth can be made better. It would probably be part of a plugin I think.
Also https://www.furunousa.com/-/media/si...ing_guide1.pdf
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As I have to make changes to most/all my wpts, I do not transfer via data connection, rather I use -->gpx -->gpsutility (to change groups of wpts, and to convert to rat/rou) --> rat/rou files
For my older plotter, wpts etc described in Section 6-1 to 6-4 of the manual (in link to large pdf below). Specification of wpt is in 6-4 (pgs 164-165).
https://www.furunousa.com/-/media/si...ors_manual.pdf
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06-10-2021, 11:06
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Boat: 1981 Bristol 32 Sloop
Posts: 17,532
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Re: Interoperability between OpenCPN(s) & Devices
What does this mean " I use -->gpx -->gpsutility (to change groups of wpts, and to convert to rat/rou) --> rat/rou files"?
The specification should be a separate document that you attach.
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06-10-2021, 11:13
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Boat: 1981 Bristol 32 Sloop
Posts: 17,532
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Re: Transferring waypoints and routes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antipole
The most common requirement is to transfer waypoints and routes to or from another device. Making this possible should therefore be the first step in enhancing interoperability.
Transfers should be possible using a script in the JavaScript plugin. This has the advantage that it can easily be tailored to the individual user's requirements. However, there are deficiencies in the Waypoint API that severely restrict what can be done.
I have raised a request on FlySpray to address these. The changes required are minimal in my opinion. It would be great if they could be tacked on to OpenCPN v5.5.
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Users should vote for this I think! Go to tracker / flyspray and vote to get it into the vetted feature requests.
This makes a good deal of sense to me, and I am sure others, but it is unlikely to make it into 5.5.9 fast becoming 5.6. I am going to add this to Issues in OpenCPN in hopes the request will continue to be refined and improved so that it is as good as it can be for interoperability.
https://github.com/OpenCPN/OpenCPN/issues/2421
There could be basic scripts for certain targets that are modified by the user.
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06-10-2021, 11:15
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Emsworth, UK
Boat: Alubat Ovni 395
Posts: 269
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Re: Interoperability between OpenCPN(s) & Devices
Quote:
Originally Posted by sv_pelagia
Related to the transfer of waypoints and routes to other devices:
As noted earlier, I transfer (via rou/rat files) waypoints and routes from OpenCPN to my Furuno chartplotter. As with many chartplotters, the Furuno has several limitations: (i) limited number of wpt symbols (many which, by the way, do NOT have obvious equivalents in OpenCPN), (ii) colour scheme that only partially matches OpenCPN (e.g., OPCPN black is yellow on Furuno), (iii) a limit of 6 characters for wpt name, and (iv) limit of 13 characters for comments. (There are also other differences, but the above are what I have to deal with.)
It would be great if OpenCPN had a plugin that would make the above changes and save to rou/rat file. (Currently, I use GPSUTILITY to make wholesale changes and save as rou/rat. )
ALSO: Unless I've missed something, I cannot change symbols, colours, etc of wpts for many wpts at once within OpenCPN. This would seem a useful capability, a separate issue from transferring routes and wpts.
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Not sure about the colour scheme. But, assuming rou/rat files are text files, I think you could do all you want using the JavaScript plugin. You could process your waypoints, select the ones you want by some criterion, truncate names and comments, change the symbol etc. and write out to a file. A refinement would be to warn if truncating names caused waypoint names to clash or you could decide how to make them unique.
Because you would be scripting this, you could tailor it to your needs without having the process baked into a traditional plugin.
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06-10-2021, 11:24
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#40
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: British Columbia
Boat: Sceptre 41
Posts: 1,928
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Re: Interoperability between OpenCPN(s) & Devices
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgleason
What does this mean " I use -->gpx -->gpsutility (to change groups of wpts, and to convert to rat/rou) --> rat/rou files"?
The specification should be a separate document that you attach.
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What does this mean? It is my process of getting wpts from OpenCPN to gpsutility then to rou/rat files which Furuno reads in. (GPSUtility required to convert to rou/rat, and to modify groups of wpts.)
Relevant pages of manual attached. Especially note wpt symbols, colours and naming/comment limitations.
The "format uploads to Furuno" option on connections is for data transfer by serial connection etc, not via file (gpx, rat/rou). Also, it may shorten wpt name but there is no way to alter symbols systematically etc. FurunoNavnetV2-DataTransfer.pdf
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06-10-2021, 11:28
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#41
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: British Columbia
Boat: Sceptre 41
Posts: 1,928
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Re: Interoperability between OpenCPN(s) & Devices
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antipole
Not sure about the colour scheme. But, assuming rou/rat files are text files, I think you could do all you want using the JavaScript plugin. You could process your waypoints, select the ones you want by some criterion, truncate names and comments, change the symbol etc. and write out to a file. A refinement would be to warn if truncating names caused waypoint names to clash or you could decide how to make them unique.
Because you would be scripting this, you could tailor it to your needs without having the process baked into a traditional plugin.
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Yes, after reading your posts, I wondered if this would work for me.
BUT, this requires some coding abilities, and is far too much to expect for most users (no disrespect intended! but how many OpenCPN users code?). Some users already consider OpenCPN not user friendly (I'm not one of them...).
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06-10-2021, 16:59
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Boston, MA
Boat: 1981 Bristol 32 Sloop
Posts: 17,532
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Re: Interoperability between OpenCPN(s) & Devices
You could start by providing a spec detailing how you want to change
O ----> Furuno
Furuno ----> O
Then the next step is to make the two scripts.
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06-10-2021, 17:59
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#43
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: PNW
Boat: Catalina 400 MKii
Posts: 4
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Re: Interoperability between OpenCPN(s) & Devices
Use case:
Have existing system (Garmin GPSmap XSV) with chartplotter, autopilot (Raytheon ST6000+), depth, wind speed & direction (Garmin) all on NMEA 2000.
As I have researched and read, I come across OpenCPN and think awesome, useful application of open source (I work for the distribution SUSE) and I want to experience the collaboration and features so I build a RaspberryPi + NMEA interface with touch screen for a remote navigation station.
Purpose: connect ship systems to see, track monitor systems, position, conditions etc. Someday remote access to monitor but today, effectively a repeater using OpenCPN (versus buying another node from Garmin) and dogfood the technology.
Issues: I have 5v power and NMEA connection thanks to a PicanM, internet thanks to a Yifan325+antenna, but can’t easily connect to the existing NMEA network (0183 or 2000).
Simple add in for each major device manufacturer?
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07-10-2021, 00:42
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#44
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 640
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Re: Interoperability between OpenCPN(s) & Devices
This scenario is already supported.
With the RaspberryPI and PicanM hat you have all the bits you need.
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07-10-2021, 09:21
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#45
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: PNW
Boat: Catalina 400 MKii
Posts: 4
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Re: Interoperability between OpenCPN(s) & Devices
@stevead
Yes agreed. Just pointing out from the usability ask to the OP, easy integration to an existing system ex commonly available systems like Furuno, Raymarine, Garmin. Having the right hardware is great too yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevead
This scenario is already supported.
With the RaspberryPI and PicanM hat you have all the bits you need.
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