How many OpenCPN users?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I sorta wish a Garmin or the like would purchase it and take it to the next level.

I don't! The Garmin "next level" would be to slicken it up and dumb it down. No thanks!!

OpenCPN is indeed a bit clunky, and not all that stable, and I wouldn't use it for a chart plotter. But it is supreme for navigation and chartwork, and excellent for tactics, so perfect for planning at the nav table on a large high res monitor, and especially with raster charts.

I've been using it for 11 or 12 years and love it. One of many splendid things it does is the best AIS implementation I've ever seen, showing the geometry of every crossing. I prefer to do collision avoidance with OpenCPN in hairy traffic situations, with radar running on the plotter screen.

I've used the logbook plugin for many years as the basis for my ship's log.

I've used the tactics plug-in for racing, with success, and for weather route planning.


I use it on a fairly powerful USB-powered mini-computer running Linux.


And if you have a problem or question do you think you could ever talk to one of the actual developers at Garmin? Could you ever get them to explain how something was designed, or for God's sake, to implement some improvement you think up? The OpenCPN developers themselves hang out on CF and will talk to anyone, and are immensely helpful, as is the whole OpenCPN community.


Big kudos and big thanks to all the developers.

[barcoMeCasa]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

, and not all that stable,

This is very likely a problem your end, it should & can run for weeks at a time without a glitch, if you have any log output of crashes the devs would be very interested in what went wrong your on your machine.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

For me OCPN crashes or hangs-up noticeably more than Coastal Explorer on the same laptop.

There must be something wrong with your PC. I have run O for many years and apart from beta test versions I can count the crashes.

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Bottom line is OCPN is fine. The $0 price-point offsets a lot of grey-hair inducing drama for many folks and they're willing to put up with a relatively fragile device with a non-daylight viewable display running software that typically only one person aboard really understands. It may emulate a Chartplotter, but it doesn't come close to a reliable MFD.

Why only one person can use it ? Myself and my wife both operate O without assistance from the other. I have friends on board that have had no trouble using O, given that it was set up, no different than a commercial system. In fact many commercial systems have major issues for new users. I personally enjoy understanding how things work so spending a hour playing around on someones nav system usually reveals stuff the owners never knew existed.


Why non-daylight displays, I have a 24inch monitor that I can see from the cockpit, A 2000nits field monitor at the helm and a 800/1000nits tablet PC.

Originally Posted by mvweebles

There are a few OCPN functions I wish commercial Nav products would emulate - MBTiles being top of list (another topic altogether - for those who need MBTiles such as me in my cruising grounds, you really need to make your own at the zoom resolution you need, not just find what's floating around the internet). I also wish there was a catalog of o-chart type bolt-ons. But I also think there is a wealth of features OCPN could incorporate, top of list would be a pre-load of CM93 and to "Apple-fy" file management so the user didn't have to figure out why there are 200 buttons across the lower margin of their screen. As this and every OCPN thread demonstrates, the user group is pretty defensive about OCPN.

As a Windows/Linux/Android user the Apple philosophy is another con to tie people in and make money.

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I sorta wish a Garmin or the like would purchase it and take it to the next level.

No no no. Garmin bought Vesper, terminated a brilliant system and introduced an overpriced bug ridden replacement. Navionics, now has big holes and is simply a cash cow for Garmin. Just a couple of examples. Garmin is in business to make profit and I don't have a problem with that.


None of this is as you say defensive it is just my opinion compared to your opinion. No one is forced to use O, it is a choice, but it requires some input to download compared to many users of commercial products that end up with what comes with their boat.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Eight Sails

Its not defensive to point out facts....

It is defensive to be highly selective about facts to skew opnion - preach to the choir.

My #1 complaint with OCPN is the constant drone that dismisses people who have trouble getting past the very steep learning curve. I think the chorus of acolytes saying it's easy is total BS and tone-deaf - even if it was easy for them, to not at least recognize the learning curve compared to commercially available options is not helpful (my guess is they know nothing about other charting software because they'd have to pay). The Developers are no better with their pat answers why it's not them, it's the user. The most interesting statistic would be of percentage of users vs downloads which I'm sure is a tiny fraction.

You know what? Coastal Explorer has a support page and user's group. It gets a a dozen or so messages a month and has for years. Why? Because it works without complications. Is it perfect? No. Does it do what OCPN does? 95% yes (and vice-versa is also correct - there are some features CE has that OCPN does not). Are there some features I wish it had? Definitely!

I'm far from the first person who points out OCPN is a PITA to learn. It's why the Internet is loaded with hours-long tutorials. OCPN is GOOD, but it's stalled and will never get GREAT until someone comes along and changes the expectations. A commercial company would be that change agent. Clearly the devs/users are not that. They have no interest to open their ears to the users and open their eyes to the competition. I suspect 80% of the die-hard users on forums like this have never been fully exposed to MFDs in a modern, feature-rich use-case. OCPN is free - that's good enough - and that's a good feature given the cost of Coastal Explorer/TimeZero ($500-ish). But that doesn't make it a great option. Just makes it a good option that is labor intensive instead of cash intensive.

[SoggyPaws]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

OCPN has, by far, the steepest and longest learning curve of any charting software on the planet. Navionics, Time Zero, Aqua Maps, Coastal Explorer are infinitely more stable and intuitive and do not require multi-hours of tutorials - in 10-minutes, the software/App is loaded and you're on your way. This is important not just for the captain/main navigator, but his/her crew too - having a navigation system that only one person truly understands is a liability.

Every single one of those programs/apps you name have CAPTIVE CHARTS. You must buy the charts from the software company, no matter how good, or expensive, or bad they are. That's why they are so easy to install.

And those companies can whimsically remove your charts. As Navionics users crossing the Pacific this year found out... When entering into Indonesia and trying to renew a lapsed subscription to the SE Asia chart pack (or trying to buy it for the first time)... Oops, no, no charts possible!

On JULY 1, without warning, Garmin scrapped the Navionics SE Asia and Indian Ocean chart pack (on the app, but I think also not available to download anew on a plotter). They say it will be Q3 before it's available again. Unless you had an ACTIVE subscription on July 1, no Navionics charts possible in Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand and west to Africa.

OpenCPN is uber flexible, and the more flexibility, and the plugins that add features that specific subsets of users want, the more complicated it gets.

And as someone else said, if you are cruising locally in a country that already has good commercial charts, there is not much impetus to use OpenCPN (unless you want a backup for your nav device that doesn't cost $5000). But if you are moving country to country or even region to region, you are forced to buy expensive chart packs that you only use for a few months.

And if you are cruising in some regions where even the just-downloaded Navionics charts may be off by as much as a half a mile (Indonesia and much of the Western Pacific islands), you ABSOLUTELY need Satellite charts in some form. Boats are lost every year in the region due to the abysmal charting. (probably why Indonesia forced Garmin to pull the Navionics chart set off the market).

We'll see if there's a new SE Asia chart pack available in Q3 that's any better.

My current Windows-based "chart plotter" on my Nav station cost $350 (computer, external monitor, keyboard & mouse), it has a 22" screen and sends all the data that is funneled into to OpenCPN over the network so that any other device--cell phones, tablets, other computers--has access to ALL the navigation data (AIS, Radar, position, instrument data).

[boatman61]

Before OPCN I had (my first ever CP) Nimble Navigator which cost me $100 including CM93 World charts.
Came on a CD and was loaded and operational in under an hour.
A great program that took me across the Atlantic, the Med to Turkey and the Caribe to Perth and Tasmania in safety.
Around 2015 I downloaded OPCN as a backup just in case but carried on with Nimble as my primary.. never crashed, zero problems.
A couple of years back my laptop died and when I tried to load Nimble it was not accepted for some reason.
Rather than faff about I tried contacting Mike for one of his combo gps/CP sticks which he had switched to several years earlier.. logic being he'd likely have upgraded things so well worth the piddling $125 he was asking for what I'd be getting.
Sadly it seems he has sailed over the horizon as despite several emails I've had no response.. as an annual Atlantic circle Voyager he's either never made it or, sipped his final drink in Las Palmas, St Martin, Horta or Madiera.
A good bloke, always ready to give a hand.
So.. OPCN is now my CP on my laptop, I don't think my experience with Nimble gifted me with any expertise so when I say easy.. it was.
I don't use it for fancy stuff like Tides, Weather, Gribs, Way points etc.. its just a source for accessing a chart of the area I am in.. its all I need.. eyeballs do the rest, along with common sense.. and seat of pants.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I don't use it for fancy stuff like Tides, Weather, Gribs, Way points etc.. its just a source for accessing a chart of the area I am in.. its all I need.. eyeballs do the rest, along with common sense.. and seat of pants.

The truth be known most people use their very expensive commercial chart plotters that came with their boat in exactly the same way. The perception is that they are easy to use, no learning curve. There is nothing wrong with this. If you don't go very far then a depth sounder and a GPS phone running Google will probably more than suffice. But I reckon Christopher Columbus would have traded his Astrolabe and Azimuth for a hand held GPS any day and would have taken the time to learn about WP's, much easier to find his way back.

I have crewed on boats with mega expensive / sophisticated systems with owners who have waxed lyrical about the ease of use. Those same users have never entered or even know how to enter a WP let alone a route and heaven forbid run a weather routing scenario. What is the point of trimming your sails if you are heading in a non optimal direction. They will often use their equally expensive, self learning AP to sail a compass bearing by dib, dib, dobbing the + and - buttons.

Once you start integrating other equipment, things do get decidedly more complex regardless of the system. This IMO is where O really comes into its own, it is not tied to any proprietary hardware or requires specialist interface boxes. Radar is a good example. A PC running O can have ready access to internet for weather services even using SSB with or without Pactor with results being overlaid on charts. All of which is available to other devices over wifi.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by bcn

Of course the directories come handy when creating chart groups.



Installing mbTiles or from other sources concept of a "folder" where those are residing should not be an issue. At least not for somebody who remembers "drawers" for the paper charts...

My mother-in-law never quite got the concept either, even when I tried to explain it based on the file drawer of the filing cabinet she sat next to and used all the time.


She used the free version of Word, which defaulted to "untitled.doc" and she never learned how to "rename file" or even name whatever she was writing. She never did figure out "where did my document go when I tried to save it?!?"

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

The truth be known most people use their very expensive commercial chart plotters that came with their boat in exactly the same way. The perception is that they are easy to use, no learning curve. There is nothing wrong with this. If you don't go very far then a depth sounder and a GPS phone running Google will probably more than suffice. But I reckon Christopher Columbus would have traded his Astrolabe and Azimuth for a hand held GPS any day and would have taken the time to learn about WP's, much easier to find his way back.

I have crewed on boats with mega expensive / sophisticated systems with owners who have waxed lyrical about the ease of use. Those same users have never entered or even know how to enter a WP let alone a route and heaven forbid run a weather routing scenario. What is the point of trimming your sails if you are heading in a non optimal direction. They will often use their equally expensive, self learning AP to sail a compass bearing by dib, dib, dobbing the + and - buttons.

Once you start integrating other equipment, things do get decidedly more complex regardless of the system. This IMO is where O really comes into its own, it is not tied to any proprietary hardware or requires specialist interface boxes. Radar is a good example. A PC running O can have ready access to internet for weather services even using SSB with or without Pactor with results being overlaid on charts. All of which is available to other devices over wifi.

My way points have always been kinda vague.. Horta.. Lands End.. entrance to Ushant Channel, 5nm off Finisterre (roughly) same for most Capes.. mainly it's eyeball guesstimate.
I know how to do it but can't be assed..

Back in the day it was paper chart, compass, knot meter and sounder, if it was foggy ride the contours..

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by boatman61

My way points have always been kinda vague.. Horta.. Lands End.. entrance to Ushant Channel, 5nm off Finisterre (roughly) same for most Capes.. mainly it's eyeball guesstimate.
I know how to do it but can't be assed..

Back in the day it was paper chart, compass, knot meter and sounder, if it was foggy ride the contours..

No problem with that.


My point was that commercial plotters already installed on a second hand boat are perceived to be easier to use than O when it is really because they are there and most users don't progress beyond the first menu.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

No problem with that.


My point was that commercial plotters already installed on a second hand boat are perceived to be easier to use than O when it is really because they are there and most users don't progress beyond the first menu.

You're talking apples/oranges. The config issues with MFDs are 99% due to integration with ship's systems (autopilot, multiple GPSs, AIS, Radar, environmental instruments, etc.) which are increasingly simplified with N2K. Not saying there are no issues, but if you want to compare, do so with OCPN as a true MFD, not just a chart software.

It's amazing that you guys cannot even admit to a single flaw in OCPN - any flaw is operator error or some brand of what-about-ism. It's that perfect in your mind. If you had to pay money for it, you'd drop it in a NY minute.

[boatman61]

If you think it's that crap don't use it.. else all your doing is trolling..
Maybe it's as simple as your a dealer who depends on your sales of market products that crap out or screw over buyers..

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by boatman61

If you think it's that crap don't use it.. else all your doing is trolling..
Maybe it's as simple as your a dealer who depends on your sales of market products that crap out or screw over buyers..

If it wasnt for the 5% where OCPN is useful, I would kick it to the curb.

Put a $250/user price tag on it - half what CE/TZ charge and see how it goes. Especially with the grumpy finger-pointing development philosophy. Better yet, offer a 7-day money back and see how many people actually keep it.

You'd think the developers would like to hear from frustrated users. Easier to label as troll and listen to the fawning choir sing the praises.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

If it wasnt for the 5% where OCPN is useful, I would kick it to the curb.

Put a $250/user price tag on it - half what CE/TZ charge and see how it goes. Especially with the grumpy finger-pointing development philosophy. Better yet, offer a 7-day money back and see how many people actually keep it.

You'd think the developers would like to hear from frustrated users. Easier to label as troll and listen to the fawning choir sing the praises.

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

If it wasnt for the 5% where OCPN is useful, I would kick it to the curb.

Put a $250/user price tag on it - half what CE/TZ charge and see how it goes. Especially with the grumpy finger-pointing development philosophy. Better yet, offer a 7-day money back and see how many people actually keep it.

You'd think the developers would like to hear from frustrated users. Easier to label as troll and listen to the fawning choir sing the praises.

I am beginning to understand your personal frustration, but the value of O extends far beyond a the 5% of stuff that is not available to you from any other system. That's a fairly compelling argument for using it.

Different people have different thresholds for adopting change and you seem to be stuck in your devotion to a particular commercial platform.

Given your enthusiasm for it over O perhaps you would tell us what system you use and how it is better than O apart from a perceived ease of use (installation).

I don't use O because it is free I use it because it is constantly evolving and I get excited about new and emerging technology. It also gives me access to areas where commercial charts just don't exist. If this puts me in your nerd category then so be it, but there are many users, like Boatman61 that use it for simple everyday navigation.

As for your comment about the developers, they are highly engaged with the community and welcome detailed bug reports and feature requests. Progress only occurs as a result of constructive criticism not generalised venting.

Compare this to the numerous "workarounds" for stuff that doesn't work on commercial systems. Garmin Bluetooth sync, maximum displayed distance to WP Raymarine, for example.