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Old 24-11-2018, 11:12   #16
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Re: Yet another wannabe

Docking a 50' cat single-handed? Maybe in no wind, no current conditions, but man, try to work that in your head first. Literally go through the mechanics of it. If you cannot do that, then perhaps a smaller boat.

I did not read your entire post. Later you tried to force this on the readers, not going to work. We have seen too many posts like this over the years.

If, money is not really an impediment, then just consider the concept of paid crew, to take care of the boat (have you ever tried to wash a 50' cat??? The amount of surface area is HUGE!!!!) and to take care of getting the boat safely in and out of slips. At least for the 1st year.

Since you have not owned a boat yet, most here will self-translate "I want" To "I think I need, but am quite possibly wrong." Without the experience to back it up, you cannot know for sure what you really need. So many people these days buy too much boat, either for their needs, their skill levels, or to match their finances.

Just consider this; without the practical experience, your conviction of what you much have could, in fact, be wrong. It could be right, too, but try chartering first, and not just the boats you think you need/want, but those that are very much outside of the scope of your desires.

Chris
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Old 24-11-2018, 12:04   #17
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Re: Yet another wannabe

I think the simplest and most responsible answer for you:

1) Buy a small boat. Whatever. Make it cheap (or cheap for you. Cheap for me is a few thousand. Cheap for you seems to be at least a few tens of thousands). Something you can make major mistakes on and not worry about it.

2) While you sail, go to a few boat shows. If you really have no realistic top-end for budget... well. Pretty much every boat at these shows can be had for <$5m. Just see what you like.

If you're dropping a few million on something, I'd hope you really get to know it first.

Most of these boats you can charter. After you figure out what you like for the most part, charter them... maybe you really don't like the boat after all.

Also call the manufacturer. I'm sure if you're going to spend millions on a boat they'll be more than happy to help you.

Also, find someone you trust to help you with your money.
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Old 24-11-2018, 12:30   #18
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Re: Yet another wannabe

I think the issue here is your initial post. You’ve come here asking all the wrong questions (not one legitimate question regarding outfitting a cruising boat other than aesthetics and what youve watched on YT IMO) forcing people to believe that your budget is the moon, so why should anyone here invest any time in helping you pick a boat you admittedly know nothing about? IF your initial post had started with ‘I’ve charted a couple of larger cats and really like my initial experience with them, please help me outfit for cruising the med’ or something along those lines people would be more inclined to help, but this sounds more like an exercise for what could very well be a twenty something year old dreaming in his parents basement. I like reading and helping people solve real life problems on real boats, or get real world feed back on products/systems etc. The head of my engine is in my garage calling me to re-installe the new valves and springs. Get some time on the water and then come back and re-read your initial post and good luck.
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Old 24-11-2018, 12:39   #19
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Re: Yet another wannabe

Hey Chris,

thanks for your comments.

I understand my first post was rather long and not everybody will read the whole thing. There are a few points though that I thought were pretty clear and made early: I'm interested in a catamaran and I'm looking for advice on buying a new boat (there's a lot of information on buying used boats). Still people suggest buying an old monohull. I can't prevent that and they can do whatever they want, but why do they bother answering? Anyway, it's ok.

If you would have read a little further ;-) (sorry, couldn't resist) or in a later reply, I mentioned, that I indeed plan on having paid crew for anything more than daysailing but just not permanently because I really value some time alone. You are of course totally right, I couldn't maintain such a big boat all alone, so the rough idea (and basically all I have on all of this is rough ideas) is to use a mix of jobs for locals, temporary (paid) crew and maybe some unpaid crew (free living and travel for help with the boat). I also understand that (at least in the beginning) I will need more help handling the boat.

You are also totally right with my "wants“. The naming comes from requirements management for projects: must haves, wants, nice to haves and don't want/needed. I didn't elaborate on the must haves because those are pretty well described everywhere and offered by almost every boat builder. I also know that I'll probably don't get all my wants and I will need to compromise and that there are wants I don't really need, though at the moment I still want them.

There are videos about cats with joystick control that make docking look easy and still it might not be fully single-handed and some help on the dock would be very helpful. As you said, I'm not rushing into this and chartering boats I consider is definitely a step in the process but I need to narrow it down a little. I'm also pretty sure that my wants will change with every charter or (boat show) visit ...

Thanks again, I really appreciate your help.
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Old 24-11-2018, 12:42   #20
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Re: Yet another wannabe

With an essentially unlimited budget and a list of unusual demands, you should be talking to custom designers and builders, not looking at production cats, even very high end ones.

Following this route, you really can have everything you want in the boat. Whether it is a set of good ideas for you will be found as you actually use the boat.

We don't know if you are for real or a troll, for some trolling activities in the past have sounded much like your initial post... this may help you understand why folks are wary and a bit dismissive of your requests. I personally have no experience with boats of the sort that you describe, but I've been full time cruising for 32 years now, and have seen folks in all sorts of boats. Some have a good time in very simple boats of small size. Others have a crap time in floating fantasy boats. It is the sailor that determines which category he falls in, not the boat itself.

Good luck in following you chosen path, and remember that all the responses that you get come for free, from folks who took the time to write them. If some don't do what you wish, move on and don't waste time and bandwidth complaining about them.

Jim
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Old 24-11-2018, 12:48   #21
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Re: Yet another wannabe

Hi Matt, we have a new member here who is waiting for his new Leopard due in 2020, he might be a good person to contact:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...er-210515.html

and this might help:
Cruisers & Sailing Forums - Leopard Catamarans

Good luck!
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Old 24-11-2018, 13:10   #22
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Re: Yet another wannabe

I sincerely don't intend this in a mean spirited way, but rather than impress those you come across while sailing, you will probably be mocked. Someone with more money than brains is painfully obvious among people who really know what they are doing.

Since you have the free time, and also the funds, I'd submit the smart course of action would be to buy a used 30 foot sailboat, and get some actual practical experience on your own for one year. Then you can pick out your dream boat, and truly know what to buy. Being a tech guy, it will also give you some depth of character that you would not be able to obtain by just having all the bells and whistles up front. Neptune does not use electricity, and that is the eternal charm. I really do not mean offense or disrespect, but it's incredibly easy to spend money in a stupid way, and not even know it at the time. Good luck, and welcome. Make the most of life - you truly have a great opportunity.
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Old 24-11-2018, 13:26   #23
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Re: Yet another wannabe

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Originally Posted by odonnellryan View Post
Also, find someone you trust to help you with your money.
I don't want to go into detail, but my money is well invested and generates secure regular income, there's also real estate, etc. I don't consider the money that will go to the boat an investment, the money will be gone the moment it's spend on the boat. The "boat money" will not come from the investment, it will come from my pocket money (what's left of that regular income after cost of living and some reinvestment). I won't spend more than what's already in my pocket money account, and I won't spend all of it on the boat. So no worries, I'm covered here.

I guess a lot of people will say, with that money, why don't you just go cruise ship cruising and have everything done for you. But that's not my thing, I tried it. Too many people, the need to dress up and they won't let you have dinner on deck in nothing else but shorts :-)
I could charter a fancy yacht with crew but I can't stand being the sole center of attention and I would like to eventually circumnavigate and that would be too expensive as a charter (if at all possible). That's also why I don't want to have crew all the time, I value privacy and time alone and I'll never get accustomed to having "servants".

But this gets too personal, so I'd rather get back to discussing the boat...
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Old 24-11-2018, 14:11   #24
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Re: Yet another wannabe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
With an essentially unlimited budget and a list of unusual demands, you should be talking to custom designers and builders, not looking at production cats, even very high end ones.

Following this route, you really can have everything you want in the boat. Whether it is a set of good ideas for you will be found as you actually use the boat.

We don't know if you are for real or a troll, for some trolling activities in the past have sounded much like your initial post... this may help you understand why folks are wary and a bit dismissive of your requests. I personally have no experience with boats of the sort that you describe, but I've been full time cruising for 32 years now, and have seen folks in all sorts of boats. Some have a good time in very simple boats of small size. Others have a crap time in floating fantasy boats. It is the sailor that determines which category he falls in, not the boat itself.

Good luck in following you chosen path, and remember that all the responses that you get come for free, from folks who took the time to write them. If some don't do what you wish, move on and don't waste time and bandwidth complaining about them.

Jim
Hi Jim, thanks for your reply!

My budget is high but not unlimited. I basically started this because I would like to know a little better what I really want and what's possible before talking to builders. As you say, my demand seems to be unusual since there's surprising little information on buying new boats out there (there's a ton on buying used boats), so I hoped to find some people here who actually ordered new boats and could share some experiences.

I'm not totally new to sailing, though a little rusty, and I am well aware that I will have to gain more hands-on knowledge before handling my dreamboat. I will try to get some before ordering the boat to make sure I know what I'm buying and more while it gets build.

I totally get your point, that you can have a great time on basically any kind of boat. A few years back, ok, maybe not so few, I would have settled for much less. It's just that becoming older, I'm now used to comforts I don't want to miss, even on a boat. And all the people on the net who say that most of the time cruising is spent tied up or at anchor, so living comfort is an important aspect.

I recently came across the bluewater 60, they currently only have computer graphics, but from the little info they have on their site, it looks like it comes pretty close to most of my wishes, the main issue I see there at the moment is that it's 60ft...

Oh, and regarding trolling, if that would be my intent, I would have probably gone for something easier that requires less explanation, Like mono vs cat or guns

Also on this aspect, I know that I ask mainly about not essential features of boats and I can understand that some people find that annoying. I sometimes watch “cruising off duty" on YouTube because they show different catamarans inside and outside but they drive me crazy by focusing on the number of kitchen sinks and the size of the "princess seats". So I guess I could create similar feeling with my questions.
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Old 24-11-2018, 14:17   #25
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Re: Yet another wannabe

PM me if you want to learn how to singlehand and liveaboard. Im in Bermuda sailing south soon.
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Old 24-11-2018, 15:08   #26
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Re: Yet another wannabe

Quote:
Originally Posted by exploringmatt View Post
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

And more info on how to buy a new boat. There's tons of information out there on how to buy an old/used boat and what to look out for. There's little/nothing on new boats. Or maybe there is but I didn't find it. So anything that could help me here would be appreciated.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Besides cost, there's not much difference between buying old and new. Both need to have a survey. And a sea trial. Yes, even a new one. With an older boat, most stuff is out of warranty. On a new one, you'll have warranties on everything, BUT, BUT, BUT...sputter...EACH DANGED ONE OF THEM will be for a different company: the one that made it. NOT through the boat builder. Wrap your head around THAT one.
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