Why is my boat pointing into the wind?

[bdav21]

Originally Posted by GreaseWspoon

Here are the rudder dimentions

Assuming you have checked the steering cables and mechanics. Does the rudder itself turn through its arc freely and is not binding?
If so the weather helm may be increased by a bent rudder shaft. Running the rudder into something, like a crab pot or a grounding may result in it being bent aft thus increasing weather helm.
Sail trim and mast rake will also affect the helm.
Check this stuff out. If you don’t know take someone with you that does.

[Rothblum]

I agree that your problem is unlikely to be linked to sail trim, given the sporadic nature of the onset. Since your rudder has been damaged, I would look for a possible air path to the low pressure side of the rudder. If air reaches the low pressure side of a lifting surface, and there is simultaneously separated flow on the surface, the air will displace the separated water initiating drastically different flow patterns. This can cause a complete reversal of the lifting forces on the rudder, say from +100% to -200%. Very dramatic. Ventilation of surface-piercing struts and hydrofoils is a big reason why these appendages are not widely used in open water applications, despite their invention around the same time as aircraft lifting surfaces. If air is reaching your rudder, its introduction could depend on various conditions such as boat attitude, motion, and wave action, which would explain the random onset. Of course, the greater the angle of heel, the closer the rudder will be to the surface, and the more opportunity for air to reach the low-pressure (the windward) side. Even something as simple as a gouged-out channel on the rudder surface might be sufficient. If the pitch attitude of your boat happened to be down at the bow, that might also exacerbate the problem or initiate it. I would take a careful look at the rudder to see if there were some anomaly that might provide an air path. Likewise, if there is something about the weight distribution or sail trim that might cause a bow-down attitude, that might also be a trigger. From the drawing of the rudder, there looks like there might be a lot of space between the hull and the lifting part of the rudder.

[bdav21]

Originally Posted by GreaseWspoon

To give you an idea of my experience I have my 50 ton master captains license and sailing endorsement , 5 years captain of a 40 foot sailin catamaran taking tourist out 3 charters a day 5+ days a weekand have owned 5 different monohulls around 27 feet in the last 10 years . I have never experienced this issue on any other sailboat I have been on. Not trying to be weird defensive braggy guy or anything ,just trying to get some more helpful responses

Thanks for the reply listing your experience. I understand your reluctance in listing it previously.
Perhaps some more background info is needed.
Was this condition present in previous years. Did It surface after an event, like grounding or a rigging adjustment, repair or replacement. A change in mast rake or size of sails and where they are tack to ?
In short more info is needed. I too am along time sailor with many races, blue water miles and several ocean passages. I love to tinker and tune. Balancing out the helm through sail trim, mast position, center board position and where the center of lateral resistance is, is key to solving the problem. Not knowing how or when this condition surfaced is also key in determining if something has been damaged or just worn out.
I hope you will respond with more info.
Best,
Bill Davenport

[bdav21]

After reviewing your thread. I would definitely look at the wheel steering assembly cables and where the quadrant is attached to the rudder post. A slippage at the union of the post and quadrant could cause this intermittent problem.
Good luck, let us know.
Bill D.

[SIMONNDX]

If you imagine that you new boat is balance fore and aft around the mast.
The further aft the sailplan is the more weather helm you get.

Try pulling the mast forward , there will be adjustment holes on the forestay attachment.
Do this carefully , one inch less length could be 10degrees rake depending on mast height.
You will of course have to slacken off the shrouds and ease the backstay considerably.

If you cannot understand this ,then get in a rigger .

In my experience having a rig tuned will transform your boat’s sailing feel but will require a bit of experiment.

To roughly check rake hang a heavy weight to the main halyard , eg bucket of water, and see where it hangs relative to the mast , probably about 10”.

Don't worry about sails , rudder , mainsheet etc just get her balanced!

It’s also the cheapest way to start.

Take care if you decide to slacken or tighten bottlescrews though , count the number of threads showing before starting for a reference point.
Don't forget to put the split pins in after.
Good luck!

[parkstone bay]

If she heads up, that's approximately 10 to the sixth times better than LEE helm. Now, that's a real PITA.

[Sailor 99]

One day I happened to be driving a first Bene 35s5 which was almost uncontrollable with weather helm and rounding up in what were pretty light winds for that behaviour.



The owner took the sails into the sail maker later that week and the problem was that the bold rope had shrunk or was never long enough in the first place. The result was that the main halyard could never be tightened up enough to take the draft out. This resulted in the boat being overpowered no matter what we did because we could not change the sail shape. Even at 10 12 knots she had massive weather helm and was rounding up.

[pufferfish]

If that seems to happen as randomly as you say, even in light winds, I'd suspect currents and waves to be the culprits. Strange though if that would consistently would push windward...
Else, weather Helm would be a more likely explanation

[Flextron]

There is no issue here it’s simple you are over pressed boat will turn up to wind. Ease traveler, add back stay tension and de-power the main. It’s basic stuff this.

[sonofasonofasailer456]

Originally Posted by mike d.

Optimally you should find out what the rake if any there should be ! Then start with the lower stays 1st, sight up the mast to make sure you are straight, front to back, and side to side ! Then work your uppers, the same ! How much tension is a question I still have, though when the boat went in l;ast yr, and the rig was set up, the yard really put pressure on the rig ! More than we ever had ! That being said, the boat never sailed as nice before that, it just scared the hell out of me ! There was no looseness on leeward side when sailing at all ! The mast also seamed to be raked fwd some what. This was on out GulfStar 37 ! Note this was also with 39 yr old sails !

Sure¡ Fast boat with 39 year old sails! I think I might have been on that boat! Lol

[sonofasonofasailer456]

When you for your rudder, see if the strut is turning in the rudder.

[GreaseWspoon]

Update: the rudder skeleton is complete and I still have not been able to find the original dimentions For a cascade 27 rudder. I have had no luck getting ahold of russel from cascade, if any of you have any ideas for finding this Information or any advice on what you would recommend for how deep to make this thing it would be much appreciated. Another question : the two part expanding foam I was planning to use is only 2 pound. Do I need something more dense ? The drawing is what is left of the rudder (the bottom is broken off) So I really just need to know how how deep to make it.

[GreaseWspoon]

Originally Posted by GreaseWspoon

Update: the rudder skeleton is complete and I still have not been able to find the original dimentions For a cascade 27 rudder. I have had no luck getting ahold of russel from cascade, if any of you have any ideas for finding this Information or any advice on what you would recommend for how deep to make this thing it would be much appreciated. Another question : the two part expanding foam I was planning to use is only 2 pound. Do I need something more dense ? The drawing is what is left of the rudder (the bottom is broken off) So I really just need to know how how deep to make it.

Whoops there’s the correct photos

[GreaseWspoon]

Also I’ll include some photos of the form I built. My plan is to fill it with foam and then hand shape it like a surfboard , then glass it. Just need to know how how long to make it, I have it set around 45 inches right now just as my guess. Is this plan crazy?

[Jim Cate]

People seldom complain about a rudder being too powerful. In your place I'd make it fairly deep and enjoy the added control that this brings. I won't advise a specific dimension, for I don't know squat about that boat, but remember, if for some reason a deeper rudder has undesireable effects on your boat, it will be pretty easy to hack off a few inches from the heel of the rudder and reglass it. Not so easy to ADD depth with good strength.

Jim