The hidden dangers of power winches

[Paul Elliott]

Originally Posted by boeing1

yes good advice would also add should check condition of the rubber covers for switches that could leak

Also check the rubber button covers for degradation. Mine (from Harken) get gummy after five years or so, and I've had the buttons stay depressed after I take my finger off the button.

This happened at sea and I broke a block and bent a heavy stainless plate where the block was attached. As a jury-rig I cut away the center of the button cover and patched it with sail-repair tape, so the fabric side was facing the switch button. Of course I replaced the button covers when I got back to civilization. The replacements are starting to go bad again -- I guess it's time to order some new ones.

In hindsight I probably didn't need to cut away the center of the cover, just put a piece of sail tape inside it to cover the gummy section.

I don't leave lines on the electric winches when I am off the boat.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by Myknjul

We had one with our jib sheet wrap over top of itself and completely jam up. Because of the incredible amount of tension we could not get it free. Of course it happened at the worst time possible in rough weather. Finally had to cut the sheet to keep from damaging the sail or the furler.

Thanks for the heads up on the issues above!

This is exactly why it is so very dangerous to use an electric winch to climb a mast! A truly terrible incident in Jolly Harbour a few years ago resulted in the amputation of a woman's hands and forearms, and all eight fingers of a would be rescuer… I know the guys who had to clean it all up, and was present a day later. Awful. People should NOT be tempted to use electric or other powered winches to mast climb. Solenoids can stick on, and riding turns under tension are impossible to release if the tension is continuing, as you found out.

[donradcliffe]

The winch switch covers on the Valiant 47 were all replaced last year after the winch stuck on during a sail. A pneumatic switch sounds interesting.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

The winch switch covers on the Valiant 47 were all replaced last year after the winch stuck on during a sail. A pneumatic switch sounds interesting.

Pneumatic switches are good. Lewmar is phasing them out though I think… Anyhow they are harder to get, and also have their own issues sometimes. I have heard reports (not that I have experienced at all) that they can sometimes activate due to overpressure in the heat. But yes. Stuck on. BLOODY DANGEROUS.

[Kiwi.]

Originally Posted by timbenner

Why not self tail it for obvious reasons?? I self tail the halyard in the electric winch when winching someone up the mast to insure it doesn't slip and use the rope clutch as well. Just curious? I understand that you can't self tail it when bringing them down.

I don't use the self tailler on the electric winch when pulling someone up the mast (I do use the clutch) because I have had a winch fail to stop when I stopped pressing the button; it continued to run for about 15 seconds. If I'd pulled someone to the top and that happened it would have tried to pull my first mate through the sheave at the top of the mast.

[TheThunderbird]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

Our powered Lewmar 65 primaries have all switching below decks. The cockpit 'button' is a pneumatic diaphragm that energizes the winch by means of the air actuated relay below. That said, we never leave any lines on these big self-tailers.

Same for me.

We have switches on the drawing table for pumps, winches (3) and windlass
I feel terribly sorry for what happened... I look at winches always with much respect and fear... yet I could not imagine what happened....

Please all of us be very careful !!!
It looks like NOT USING THE SELF-TAIL is the safe option

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga

Pneumatic switches are good. Lewmar is phasing them out though I think… Anyhow they are harder to get, and also have their own issues sometimes. I have heard reports (not that I have experienced at all) that they can sometimes activate due to overpressure in the heat. But yes. Stuck on. BLOODY DANGEROUS.

Have experienced this. Replaced my pneumatics as a result. Only happens on a cool morning when the sun suddenly rises and hits the switches. Still didn't like it. Went to regular foot switches.

[reed1v]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

We had the same thing happen with our windlass. Fortunately, we we onboard when it took place and shut it off within 15-20 seconds. We've always turned off all electric winches, furling devices, fresh water pump and the windlass when not in use ever since.

Yup, pays to be ultra cautious on a boat. We even shut off our propane tanks at the tank end and burn up what is in the line when we left the boat even for a day. Few folks are aware of the bits of propane that sink into the bilges over time. Can add up to one big explosion.
BTW, best way to get propane out of the bilge is by those plastic bailing pumps. Looks silly when your pumping what looks like air but can be a lifesaver. Do not use a match to check the bilges.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by Kiwi.

I don't use the self tailler on the electric winch when pulling someone up the mast (I do use the clutch) because I have had a winch fail to stop when I stopped pressing the button; it continued to run for about 15 seconds. If I'd pulled someone to the top and that happened it would have tried to pull my first mate through the sheave at the top of the mast.

Honestly you really should not use powered winches with a PERSON on the other end! A riding turn would have had the same effect, and would have killed your First Mate. They are convenient, easy, and easily DEADLY. I see it all the time and often without real reason other than laziness. A combination of climbing, manual winching and belaying should be fairly easy for just about anyone. Of course it requires some effort… if that bothers, then you can get some help. Better than mopping the blood of a crew or loved one off he deck…

[minaret]

Originally Posted by Muckle Flugga

Honestly you really should not use powered winches with a PERSON on the other end! A riding turn would have had the same effect, and would have killed your First Mate. They are convenient, easy, and easily DEADLY. I see it all the time and often without real reason other than laziness. A combination of climbing, manual winching and belaying should be fairly easy for just about anyone. Of course it requires some effort… if that bothers, then you can get some help. Better than mopping the blood of a crew or loved one off he deck…

Or use a winch rite at the halyard winch.

[Muckle Flugga]

Originally Posted by minaret

Or use a winch rite at the halyard winch.

That'd be fine, sure.

[monte]

Originally Posted by timbenner

Why not self tail it for obvious reasons?? I self tail the halyard in the electric winch when winching someone up the mast to insure it doesn't slip and use the rope clutch as well. Just curious? I understand that you can't self tail it when bringing them down.

Sorry Tim. As mentioned above there's been a few accidents involving electric winches not stopping when the switch is let go. It's never happened to us but using the clutch and tailing the halyard manually is a safer option. You can run the tail around an adjacent winch and cleat it off for a backup to the jammer if the crew is spending a while up there.

[OldFrog75]

Originally Posted by monte

Good story. We often use the electric winch to sheet the mainsheet hard after sailing, but never leave it or any line on the winch. We do sometimes leave the jib furling line on the winch when sailing but I think I'll look at other options. It has a clutch but I don't really trust the furling line clutch. We also use the electric winch for hauling crew up the mast but never self tail it for obvious reasons.

Yeah. Why was the halyard wrapped around the winch and self tailer? Does the boat not have a clutch on the halyard that would be sufficient for tightening it?

[Cheechako]

Wow! Did you happen to see Murphy lurking nearby?

[monte]

Originally Posted by OldFrog75

Yeah. Why was the halyard wrapped around the winch and self tailer? Does the boat not have a clutch on the halyard that would be sufficient for tightening it?

I guess you are asking about the furling line. The clutch is a bit dodgy in my opinion. Unlike a proper clutch it can be easily kicked open. If it's holding the furled jib it usually means it has quite a bit of pressure on it and suddenly letting go would be a bit of a pain. I'll probably start using the horn cleat by the winch as a backup, rather than leaving it on the winch.