Singlehand an Ingrid 38 Cutter?

[foolishsailor]

@celestial. You are dead right.

The OP doesnt currently own an Invrid 38, he is considering buying one. So he is not asking if it is possible to single hand the boat he is asking if it is a good decision to buy one for single handing. I think the consensus here is there are other boats more suited for a new single hander than the Ingrid even if it is doable for an experienced single hander to handle

[chebba]

I certainly appreciate all the comments. I hope that other newer cruisers have gained as much insight by reading them as I did. The choice became very clear as I went through the answers. My initial disappointment with the W32 was only about the living space below. It did not match my vision or imagination. Not the number or the boat. It is a lovely solid boat. The best really bang for the buck and by the pound. Sure, romance is part of the W32 but that would not be possible without it being as solid and sturdy as it is. That allows it to be romantic.
The I38 had a more expansive feel about it. Kinda rich really. That's what got me. No mistake, it is just as solid as the W32. I just felt a bit more of a rich cruiser thinking about it somehow.
Ultimately the added costs, upkeep, complexity and the added inherent risks with it's size, coupled with increased conservative sailing style needed to be a singlehander with this large a boat turned me back to the W32. I simply have to learn to live comfortably with a smaller footprint.
I still have a small window before I can't take it anymore and must decide and I am looking at a nice Mariner 36 and a couple of other bots in that range. The displacement on the M36 is less than the W32 and should handle similarly.
I thank you again for sharing with me and everyone on this topic. Beginners, as least I did, tend to think some boats are good for singlehanding and some are not. I now know it's as much about the sailor, the expertize and experience as anything. thanks.

[SkiprJohn]

I don't think you will be disappointed in the Mariner 36. I had a Mariner 35 which I sailed the islands with and transited the Pacific to Washington. Great sailer and I'd still have it today if it hadn't had a wood hull and I needed to go to the opposite coast for the Navy.
Did you check my profile with the photo of the old Mariner?
kind regards,

[SkiprJohn]

There are two different Mariner 36 boats by different designers. One was originally designed by Garden and copied by Oberly. The other was designed by Canning and built in New Hampshire. The one by Garden is the more classic design with the bowsprit.
The classic Mariner has a waterline length more than a foot longer than my old boat so will be a bit faster.
kind regards,

[SabreKai]

I don't know if the OP can do it. I don't know if I can do it

But I'll by god give it a hell of a try.

As soon as my Roberts 38 is ready, I'm off to Europe from Lake Ontario Canada.

[s/v Beth]

Can we all just hold hands now and sing cumbaya? Btw good to see you back my friend.

[cburger]

[QUOTE=chebba;949792] I simply have to learn to live comfortably with a smaller footprint.

Something the whole world needs to learn how to do.

[chris_gee]

I wouldn't get over-excited and feel you have to buy now. For one thing you are likely to find it takes quite a while to bring the boat and yourself up to scratch. Secondly finding the right boat to buy involves looking at a lot of lemons, more so if you know what you are looking at. Don't underestimate the time and costs of repairs etc, triple then some would be closer.
It seems to me that with the WS and Ingrid you are looking at one extreme of the spectrum namely the heavy full keel line. There are threads around discussing this. There are pluses and minuses. I wouldn't rule out a more moderate approach. I think being comfortable physically is important if you are living aboard and older. Relative ease of handling is also. Sail sizes tend to increase with weight namely to get a reasonable speed. Jeff_H has done several comments on this sort of thing.
The intended use is a factor. It sounds like limited offshore and coastal cruising are your intentions. For that you need a sound boat not necessarily a go anywhere blue water boat. If you are retired you have time on your side to chose your weather. However as you get older you are likely to get less strong and less rich.

[Capt Phil]

I think it was celestialsailor who asked the question who has singlehanded an Ingrid 38 in heavy weather? Does a round trip from Vancouver to Haines, Alaska, and one circumnavigation of Vancouver Island count?
I did have a crew of two for a trip from the PNW to San Francisco so didn't do that trip alone but found with the cutter rig and footed staysail with a couple of reefs in the main, she was easily handled in moderate seas. The most important thing to remember IMO is to plan ahead and have a your sail area sized for the worst possible conditions. Slows you down somewhat but you avoid the 'oh ****' moments. I found that Ingrids are sea kindly and fairly easy to handle alone with heaps of room to live aboard below.
Didn't spend that much time in marinas but tying up to government docks and fish docks in the PNW was pretty uneventful as was anchoring out. I owned her for 15 years and lived aboard off and on for much of that time.
I sold my old Bayfield 25 to buy her and it took a month or so to get used to the length of the Ingrid but she was a sweet boat. Mind you, I was a helluva lot younger, stronger and more agile in those days... Capt Phil

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Capt Phil

I think it was celestialsailor who asked the question who has singlehanded an Ingrid 38 in heavy weather? Does a round trip from Vancouver to Haines, Alaska, and one circumnavigation of Vancouver Island count?
I did have a crew of two for a trip from the PNW to San Francisco so didn't do that trip alone but found with the cutter rig and footed staysail with a couple of reefs in the main, she was easily handled in moderate seas. The most important thing to remember IMO is to plan ahead and have a your sail area sized for the worst possible conditions. Slows you down somewhat but you avoid the 'oh ****' moments. I found that Ingrids are sea kindly and fairly easy to handle alone with heaps of room to live aboard below.
Didn't spend that much time in marinas but tying up to government docks and fish docks in the PNW was pretty uneventful as was anchoring out. I owned her for 15 years and lived aboard off and on for much of that time.
I sold my old Bayfield 25 to buy her and it took a month or so to get used to the length of the Ingrid but she was a sweet boat. Mind you, I was a helluva lot younger, stronger and more agile in those days... Capt Phil

You are someone that speaks from experience. My tactics are the same. With crew, everyone has a job while sailing. Single handing, you sail conservativly...reef early and be patient with weather windows. prepare the boat for "if" it hits the fan. Experience cannot be taught but rather...experienced. Still...there are those moments when you are committed to a maneuver and things do go wrong. My crew and I were coming into a marina in the East Bay (SF) and blowing 20. I had radio'd ahead for a place to dock. The Harbor Master told me to tie up in front of the office. It was a one shot deal. What the HM failed to do is check for the guy that did not ask to dock there in his 40ft. power-bucket. There was no room to dock and the pb guy was too busy BBQing to move. So there I was in a narrow channel, wind on my stern and trying to turn the 46ft. LOA. beast of 26,000lb around in a 100 ft. channel. getting the bow threw the wind was interesting. hey,...it happens.

[SkiprJohn]

I think the OP asked how long it would take to learn to safely sail an Ingrid 38 singlehanded.

I have a friend who bought Celestial's Ingrid 38 and he has been sailing about 5-7 years total. He is currently trying to find a weather window to sail back from the leeward side of the Big Island to Hilo (windward side). His last attempt was thwarted by high winds and heavy seas in the Alenuihaha Channel between Maui and the Big Island and not enough fuel. He made it to within 15 miles of his destination and then ripped his mainsail in two and had to turn back to Upolu Pt. and Nishimura Bay. He'll be making his third attempt at returning home later today. It's at least a 36 hour or longer run for the Ingrid in favorable conditions. He's been single handing.

He's done a lot of sailing on the Ingrid and a lot of singlehanding and is much younger than us old timers.

A couple broken ribs, a damaged finger, torn and patched sails on what was a supposed to be a week long trip to Maui and back has turned into six weeks, a damaged boat and a damage sailor. He made it to Maui just fine and coming back has been slammed in the channel badly twice and around South Point once.

I know other ketch sailors will say just reef down to jib and jigger and slog to windward. Can't do it in an Ingrid with damaged sails and a contrary current, running out of fuel and food and very, very tired.

This is Celestial's former boat. I tried hard to do an appropriate J landing in San Leandro and I couldn't do it. Had to tie to a leeward pier and wait for the wind to die down. Backing is a crap shoot. You might be able to back straight if the wind doesn't catch your bow and it will only back to one direction because of the prop wash.

I truly think this would not be a first time singlehanded sailor's best choice. 100% behind what Celestial said. He wasn't bragging, just stating facts.

kind regards,

[Capt Phil]

I agree with your observations, skiprjohn... I recall that my old Ingrid was a little cantankerous in close quarters under power but the comfort down below for a liveaboard made up for it. I spent much of my time singlehanding in the PNW where there weren't that many marinas once you got out of the Vancouver, southern Van. Island.
Anchoring out was how I spent most of my time for a couple of years and found that the Ingrid was a really stable, comfortable platform.
You make a good point, however, in that trying to put her in to a slip is a bit problematic, particularly going astern. Docks and logbooms were pretty easy to tie up to, even under sail. I had been sailing for a couple of decades when I bought her as well as working on the water commercially so wasn't a complete novice.
The OP does seem a little light on experience to handle anything over 30 feet by himself. But if you are careful and watch for your weather windows and not over power the boat, he should be alright.
I've been in quite a few blows but after the first one that really frightened me, I was careful to keep my sail configuration considerably below what I could comfortably handle in the worst case situation.
Singlehanding brings a unique sense of peace, independence and accomplishment that can't be replicated doing anything else that I've found... Capt Phil

[s/v Beth]

Sounds like this boat has some special changes. I will have to sail one before I have an opinion. My Valiant seems to be someone tame compared to this, but then I don't have a bowsprit.

[Capt Phil]

The bowsprit really balanced the rig out by increasing the fore triangle. I helped a guy deliver an Ingrid 38 that had been converted to a ketch rig years ago and recall that it took alot to get her moving but the traditional cutter rig seemed to work very efficiently with lots of options for sail config's with reef points in the main which is what you want if you're singlehanding. Capt Phil

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by s/v Beth

Sounds like this boat has some special changes. I will have to sail one before I have an opinion. My Valiant seems to be someone tame compared to this, but then I don't have a bowsprit.

I believe your Valiant has a moderate cruising fin keel with a skeg hung rudder which eases maneuverability in tight places. their under-body is a good design. I would recommend the Valiant over the Ingrid for that reason.