Salvage Rights

[Shrew]

1) You need to familiarize yourself with Marine Salvage Laws. Review SALCON89:

SALCON 89 (International Convention on Salvage 1989)

This is a legitimate salvage.

2) Have your Agent discuss this with the underwriter. Make them specifically discuss with someone involved with their marine underwriting division. Those folks are familiar with salvage laws.

3) DO NOT report this as stolen. It was not stolen, it was adrift (making way) unmanned. Removing it from a dock, mooring or anchor is theft. This was a legal salvage and your agent is suggesting you file a "False Police Report", which IS illegal.

[capnpiddannick]

I think I read somewhere that international salvage rights are something like 10%of the ship's value

[Colin A]

I used to work in yacht claims for an insurance company. You should be in daily contact with a claims rep at the company. They should be in daily contact with the salvor. The company I worked for had a set of procedures to deal with salvage claims as they were often best settled quickly to avoid a drawn out back and forth.

What was the weather like on the day of the incident? This tends to figure in to salvage awards a lot.

In my experience based on the description given 300/ft is a bit high but you need the whole story. If it's an experienced salvor they likely already have the whole story typed up with pictures ready to send you insurance company.

Really I would let your insurance company lead this keep calling until they do.

As to them keeping it, look at it like your boatyard did some work on it and they are trying to get paid. Many of the same rules apply here (including the possibility of liens)

Salvage is kind of an odd thing when you first look at it but there are reasons it is the way it is. As long as the salvor doesn't go crazy (or your insurance company for that matter) this should be easily solvable,

[dulcinea16]

First, i'm in awe at the response and support! Thanks to everyone! Someone asked me to summarize the whole situation and let people know the outcome.... here goes my attempt at being concise.

1. Marina calls to inform me I broke off in a big storm.
2. I give them my SeaTow info and they are dispatched.
3. SeaTow and marina personnel are working their way to my boat, but it's been hitched by a salvage company. A gentleman in the mooring field saw my boat break free and radioed it in; salver must've been listening.
4. Salvage company anchors my boat sends me and my insurance agent a bill for... 1/3 value of the boat!
5. Here's where I'm cutting corners, but I spend the next 3 weeks in a three-way e-mail and phone tag game about this between my agent, the salver, and myself and several people from each party... it was a nightmare and I think everyone eventually cursed the other one out... Not how I wish it had gone down.
6. My insurance agent, while somehow taking two weeks to get me a response from the underwriter(I take blame for one of the weeks my boat was away because of a miscommunication while I was sailing on another boat) suggests it isn't a true salvage and I should 'go get my boat back'
7. While I thought he was insane and decided to get some other 'non-professional' advice here, I went to the police.
8. Insurance company gets into the mix and the situation is resolved in a day(no clue on cost yet)
9. Police call me, tell me it wasn't a true salvage and after I tell them the story- without names- the police officer names the salver immediately... sounds sketch to me.
10. My boat is returned to its mooring, with extra, extra, extra lines for redundancy on top of redundancy.

Bottom Line assessment: It wasn't a true salvage, but a service was provided ergo a fee is due. Apparently marine insurance has agents and you work through them as a middle man(read: pain my butt) to get you to the underwriters. and lastly.... TIE YOUR BOAT UP GOOD!

hope that made sense, hope someone learned a lesson the easy way from my example, hope this great community continues to support one another.

[Pelagic]

Glad you got your boat back..
Curious if Sea Tow, who were contracted to collect your drifting boat , had any input on your situation?

Asking them what they would have invoiced you for their time, might be a good negotiating exercise?

[svGenesis]

Was the salvager's name burt?

[Shanachie]

I used to keep my boat at Crandon Park Marina in Miami about 10-15 years ago, and towing companies other than BOAT US in the area had a bad rap, deservedly.

Big story at the marina then was how a Canadian bought a fixer - upper 30 - footer and set out for the boatyard in Fort Lauderdale. The A4 conked out at the Rickenbacker bridge and he got a short tow -- we're talking hundreds of feet - to a marina.

Tower claimed salvage because he was "dangerously" close to the bridge. No one ever found out how it ended up. But it sure was a crappy claim.

[farshore]

The only legal arrest is if the salvage company has gone through the legal process of an In rem action. This involves costly legal action on their part, a court order and a US marshal" plaster". It has to be prominently displayed on the vessel. Have a look! This is all federal court held in admiralty. Otherwise is not recognized salvage and the retaining of your vessel is quite subjective.

[Bylnr4387piracy]

Originally Posted by jreiter190

The vessel is,was,and will be your property. The salvage company has to file a claim to be determined by the court. They have no right to arrest your vessel in rem, and must return it to you.It's your property. I salvaged the four million dollar Belcher 33 during tropical storm Elena in Freeport, Tx. There is no such thing as finders keepers. Call the cops and look for an admiralty lawyer. The salvage co.stole your boat and only have a claim. Go to the Miami Library and get some books on salvage law. Good luck.My attorney was Arthur Roth, president of the Admiralty Lawyers Association in Miami. BTW, I won.

I wish there wasn't so much miss information posted about salvors rights to keep your boat in rem. It makes me think its salvage attorney's and salvage compaines mislead and misrepresent there rights pray on yacht owners by spreading theft piracy and fraud as actual law.

[Bylnr4387piracy]

I wish there wasn't so much miss information posted about salvors rights to keep your boat in rem. It makes me think its salvage attorney's and salvage compaines mislead and misrepresent there rights pray on yacht owners by spreading theft piracy and fraud as actual law by making the public think they have more rights. and authority than actual coast gaurd marine patrol or FWC or anyone else to legally posses your property before performing the due process with the federal courts to have a US marshals officially arrest you vessel . Just the thought that someone could steal someone's boat then claim salvage owners rights to your boat hold it at ransom forcing you into paying a 30% to 50% of its value is ludacris dishonest salvage companys lie and say whatever and will to scare you into paying for your own property back. Call any attorney that doesnt represents the salvage community and clients they will tell you the laws and statues but there are almost no salvage attorney's who represent the boat owners there's no money in it if your trying to hire them.that means you didnt have insurance on your salvaged boat and that means it value is under 70k probably and not worth it to the salvor or you to take to court in the first place it cost more to show up then they could be awarded unless they can somehow get the entire amount of your boat awarded .if there is a legitimate claim pay them there reasonable fee but if its BS like your boat breaking free from its moring in the middle of the night in 3 knot winds 50 feet away from its mooring by a very lucky and convenient salvor with claims of an anonymous caller. company is owned and run by this Burt then its probably sabotage and illegal he has a rap sheet of claims on boats breaking free in the middle of the night with all the chains and rigging disappearing the hole community and locals authorities know about his Scam most of the adfirt vessel in harbor marine peril are exactly the same stolen rigging and no witness it happened to my boat in while I was gone for 3 days I came back he held it hostage told me to pay the 10k on a 70k boat or he would sell it and I would get nothing with.his salvage rights. I believed him agreed to pay the amount he even talked me into.selling.it so I didnt take a loss on the boat that he could probably with a little carpet and gel coat get 80 to 90k for it . I agreed to have him help list the boat and work on the generator that needed a tune up. He told me if I moved the boat from island dock he tied it to or took anything from it I would be arrested for theft that the boat was his until I at least paid him his salvage fee . While I was coming up with the amount he was maintaining my boat as his property by law he said and I believed him because there are some much BS and lies about the subject . Anyways I after a months time got a loan for the 10k to pay his salvage fee and service fee for getting the running . I asked him.to send me a video of the boat and the genny running because I wasnt going to pay him.until I knew he had held up his end of the Bargin he sends me a black video with the sound of a engine running i say that's just a black picture with sound he claims his phone was wet. Later that day sends me a picture of the boat sunken and says he can raise it for an additional 10k and then remodel restore the damage I might even walkway not owing anything .just the loss of the boat walk away he would do that for me save me the hastle. I called the cops the MDMP coast gaurd and many lawyers . This burt now claims he never spoke to me doesnt know anything about the boat never touched it and I'm crazy making it all up. I lost everything on the boat put my life saving into the bayliner 4387 to retire in the Keys rent it out on AIRBNB in key west for 500 a night. But never made it there stopped in dinner key awaiting a captain to pilot it down there . I now owe 17k for the removal lost me entire life savings and since lost my license for no payment there's nothing I can do about it unless I pull 25 to 30k.to hire a maritime attorney to take him to court wich I dont have . This actual happened and the guy is still doing this. The name is Atlantis salvage. Burt K. He will probably get away with it seeing I have a criminal court hearing in a few months for the polution and dumping of the the boat.

[svGenesis]

Bylnr4387piracy,
Sorry your having to go through all this. If i'm you, I would document everything possible you could with the communication with Captain Burt. THis freeeking guy has been running this Con game for years just like his father did. Let me guess, this started a a month or so before Christmas? He always does his biggest "hauls" just before Christmas to pay for the holidays.

[svGenesis]

Bylnr4387piracy,
Document everything possible for court, then go to court and at least get your whole story and any evidence on record. You may not win or get a favorable judgement but it will be another mark on Atlantis marine Towing and salvage. You are correct He almost never has a legitimate claim but, when the money is there he hires his lawyer to document it all. In most cases he does the strongarm tactic (what he has done to you) and completely misrepresents his rights.

[svGenesis]

Bylnr4387piracy,
I was pretty lucky becuase my boat broker told me about Burt Korpela The day I bought my boat. So I bought my 40' Sailboat on Oct 1st. and moored it at Dinner Key, With plans to move it to a yard for refit over the Thanksgiving weekend. On the Tuesday before TG my boat and 5 others mysteriously "broke free" from thier moorings and were adrift. I still have the eyelet from my docklines. (My lines were obviously cut) I had 2-3/4" doublebraided docklines with chafegear and a 1" doublebraid line as backup with slack all cut...No fraying.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by Bylnr4387piracy

I wish there wasn't so much miss information posted about salvors rights to keep your boat in rem....

I think you'd be taken much more seriously if you could construct a sentence properly, and structure a few of them to clearly and concisely make your point.

The train-of-thought mish mash word salad you posted, with a handful of random punctuation poured over it, is practically unintelligible.

Also, remember what your first grade teach said? Neatness does indeed count. In this case, consistent white space between sentences, line breaks between paragraphs and so on. I'm not saying you have to be Strunk & White perfect, but spacing makes it much easier to read. Especially on a screen.

HTH

[SurferShane]

Originally Posted by Bylnr4387piracy

I wish there wasn't so much miss information posted about salvors rights to keep your boat in rem. It makes me think its salvage attorney's and salvage compaines mislead and misrepresent there rights pray on yacht owners by spreading theft piracy and fraud as actual law.

Thanks. Albeit the bad grammar, absolutely my concern.

Maybe time I go back to my Maritime Law study notes and do some further reading? Might even be a reason to drop into the Chambers of the leading Barrister who taught us for a cup of tea and a chat.

Likewise, I would recommend reading up on the recovery tactics of Max Hardberger.