Long distance sailing in small yachts

[KP44]

If you're really asking about an excellent long range yacht, the Kelley-Peterson is a great boat. At 45' the extra room equals luxury. The center cockpit is always dry and comfortable. With the tall, cutter rig; it sails fast and comfortable.

[Tricolor]

Please gents in this topic we discuss "small long range yachts" luxury is absolutely not the first selection criteria in this topic. Thanks...

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Tricolor

For me the perfect size, type is still a 30-32ft longkeeler if possible rigged as a ketch, 9-10 tons. For two people this size is perfect as of livability and space for storage and water. From costs perspective these kind of yachts bring long distance offshore sailing in reach of a lot more people. But first people need to believe again that it's possible.

Believe it's possible? It's been proven repeatedly.

Also, a 32' boat of 10 tons is one hell of a boat!

It's right there with a Westsail 32 and it's a proven Offshore boat

It's also right there with the Pardey's "small" boat of 30' and 17,800 # displacement


http://www.landlpardey.com/COLD-HARD-FACTS.html

[Tricolor]

[emoji4] 32' and 10 tons not mix together, but I wrote about my possible next boat. 32' and ketch is difficult enough..... I am in the run of the "possible" purchase of a 1979 32' ketch found in the UK. Maybe I can complete the purchase but it not start good with a non responding Scottish sellers agent.

[maxingout]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Believe it's possible? It's been proven repeatedly.

Also, a 32' boat of 10 tons is one hell of a boat!

It's right there with a Westsail 32 and it's a proven Offshore boat

It's also right there with the Pardey's "small" boat of 30' and 17,800 # displacement


Sailing with Lin & Larry Pardey

I had a Westsail 32 for many years, and I loved that boat. I would have happily circumnavigated in it except my wife did not like a boat that heeled over that much when sailing to windward.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by laika

That can be true, but we'd first have to agree on what "small" is

Perhaps, but my view is not that one should go big, or go small, but that cruisers should go with the smallest boat they can live with. This means choosing the smallest boat that will do what you and your crew needs it to do.

For some, this might mean a 24’ Flicka, for others it will be a 50’ Oyster. It depends on the crew, the cruising area, and most importantly the actual needs of the crew.

Originally Posted by laika

Beyond smaller boats making slower passages and thus being more exposed to wx, they are not inherently less safe or seaworthy. Additionally, in some situations, such as upwind into a heavy chop, it may be more of a struggle to make way with a shorter, lighter waterline.

I agree that design and build quality matters, but all things being equal, bigger is going to be more seaworthy than smaller. This assumes we’re talking ultimate survivability at sea. Of course few of us sail conditions where ultimate survivability is a serious concern.

Originally Posted by laika

The living and comfort thing, for sure. Everyone's threshold is different. For us (2) on a 27' and on the youngish end of the age curve, our threshold is about 3-4 months of active cruising before we start wistfully thinking about land and stability. Conversely, when living aboard solo w/ dog for 5 years full time and it never felt too small.

Storage and tankage is a crapshoot. Our 27' was built for passagemaking so storage abounds. We manage to have most of the small luxuries the bigger boats do and still have empty lockers.

Yup, everyone is different regarding needs for comfort. This is why I say people should match their boat to their actual needs. Some need more, some need less. There’s no right answer for everyone.

Originally Posted by Paul L

There's some real issues with this approach. Most potential cruisers facing the question don't have the experience to really know. They are going by their own, often romantic, notion of what cruising is. When you look at experienced cruisers buying a new boat to cruise it is usually a larger one.

Then there's the scale we use for 'I can live with'. It reminds me of those 1 to 10 scales in the doctors office to measure your pain. One man's 4 is another man's 8. Since most cruising is done in couples, if you want both parties to be content 5+ years out it is usually pretty important to move from camping on the boat to a boat that is a home.

I agree it is hard to know what you need without having someone experience. This is why I always suggest people start with a smaller, inexpensive, yet fully functional cruising boat. Then, go out and actually cruise with this for a while. This will allow you to learn what is actually important to you and your crew.

I think most new cruisers default to buying the biggest boat they can afford because they get seduced by the fancy ads and the glitzy youtube vids.

[toddster8]

The last time I looked at “Cruising World” I noticed that they are now referring to 35-foot yachts as “pocket cruisers.”

(BTW: To me, a “pocket cruiser” is certainly trailerable and probably less than 20 ft LOA.)

I’ve always thought that there was a 40-footer waiting for me in retirement, but lately I’ve been thinking that maybe 30 feet is enough. I.e. “Now,” rather than “Some Day.”

[nwdiver]

There is a saying "the smallest boat you will buy is the largest one you can afford" .........go with it

[GrowleyMonster]

If I was still single, I would prefer a boat under 36', but still bigger than my 27', if I wanted to make long passages. Something like a Catalina 30 would be really about the minimum size and room I could stand, and the motion of a sub 30' boat at sea is a huge irritation to me. If I was marina hopping, solo, honestly anything bigger than a West Wight Potter 19 would be great. It is so nice to come alongside in a tiny boat, or poke up into skinny waters, or even gently ground her and hop down into waist deep or less water and wade ashore without benefit of dinghy. Small to tiny boats have a lot of advantages. GF's little 20' Halman would suit me just fine for inshore cruising and gunkholing. Quite a salty little boat, but is right at home in skinny water.



Being NOT single anymore, my recently purchased Bruce Roberts 44 seems just about right to me for liveaboard pierside, or any overnight or longer passage. Not so handy for docking, not cheap to maintain, (but we are both wage earners and can afford it, if we can ever part with our two smaller boats!) but the space available below and the crazy headroom, and the gentle motion and the respectable speed, make cruising very attractive, and give us a means and venue for living through another Katrina in reasonable comfort. I would not WANT anything much bigger than this 44'er. The two of us would feel quite cramped and deprived on anything smaller than about 36'. This seems ideal. I know, a lot of folks would say this is just too much boat, and it IS too much boat for some folks, I agree. And I will be the first to concede that microyacht cruising is a thing, both viable and economical. It just isn't a thing for me, in my present circumstances.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by nwdiver

There is a saying "the smallest boat you will buy is the largest one you can afford" .........go with it

It would seem sort of crazy to buy the largest boat you can afford especially if you don't know yet whether the cruising life is for you unless you plan only day sail your 38 plus foot boat

But then again, that could explain why there are so many sailboats that never leave the dock

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by thomm225

It would seem sort of crazy to buy the largest boat you can afford especially if you don't know yet whether the cruising life is for you unless you plan only day sail your 38 plus foot boat

But then again, that could explain why there are so many sailboats that never leave the dock

Exactly.

I think most cruisers who have been at it for more than a few years learn what they actually need, and what is actually important. The instinct to just buy big (and fancy) is bread into most of us who live in consumerist cultures. This is why I suggest buying the smallest boat that will do what you need it to do. This perspective forces you to think about what is actually important in your boat.

[Tricolor]

Originally Posted by toddster8

The last time I looked at “Cruising World” I noticed that they are now referring to 35-foot yachts as “pocket cruisers.”

(BTW: To me, a “pocket cruiser” is certainly trailerable and probably less than 20 ft LOA.) ..............

[emoji21] [emoji21] a friend of me owner of a 52' (beautiful) sailboat, always start to talk about the environment and that we should stop using natural gas in our houses....... I can only say "okay" after reading this response I think maybe he needs a "pocket cruiser"........

Originally Posted by toddster8

The last time I looked at “Cruising World” I noticed that they are now referring to 35-foot yachts as “pocket cruisers.”

(BTW: To me, a “pocket cruiser” is certainly trailerable and probably less than 20 ft LOA.)

I’ve always thought that there was a 40-footer waiting for me in retirement, but lately I’ve been thinking that maybe 30 feet is enough. I.e. “Now,” rather than “Some Day.”

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Perhaps, but my view is not that one should go big, or go small, but that cruisers should go with the smallest boat they can live with. This means choosing the smallest boat that will do what you and your crew needs it to do.

For some, this might mean a 24’ Flicka, for others it will be a 50’ Oyster. It depends on the crew, the cruising area, and most importantly the actual needs of the crew.



I agree that design and build quality matters, but all things being equal, bigger is going to be more seaworthy than smaller. This assumes we’re talking ultimate survivability at sea. Of course few of us sail conditions where ultimate survivability is a serious concern.



Yup, everyone is different regarding needs for comfort. This is why I say people should match their boat to their actual needs. Some need more, some need less. There’s no right answer for everyone.



I agree it is hard to know what you need without having someone experience. This is why I always suggest people start with a smaller, inexpensive, yet fully functional cruising boat. Then, go out and actually cruise with this for a while. This will allow you to learn what is actually important to you and your crew.

I think most new cruisers default to buying the biggest boat they can afford because they get seduced by the fancy ads and the glitzy youtube vids.

Couldn’t agree more, good post

[charliehows]

I've a sneaking suspicion that a lot of experienced sailers would quite like a 50+ ft Amel to paddle about in. With modern handling gear there are not many issues running around in these sorts of boats short handed. However, there are lots of advantages in smaller boats, chief among them considerably reduced running costs. I always ask myself “what would a viking do with this boat?” and the answer for most modern boats would be “ conquer the world!”

[sck5]

I had a Caliber 33 I took from chesapeake bay to grenada and back. also to bermuda and all up and down the east coast. But the Caliber 40 I got after that was far more comfortable in big seas. Also, if you are like me, your wife/partner may have an opinion too.