Long distance sailing in small yachts

[JPA Cate]

Hello, Seeking Solace, and the group,

My first trip offshore was in a Yankee 30, from SF to HI and return, which we took about 6 weeks to do. I was indeed frightened by waves coming up astern that were higher than the spreaders. There is an alternative to getting an RV. One is not required to stare obsessively at what terrifies one. The boat reliably raised her stern to those "monsters", and I came to accept it as "normal."

On that trip, I learned something about myself that made me feel proud of me, too: even though i was seasick almost all the way back, I never missed one of my watches.

I also learned something about wind vs. sea conditions. If it has been light, and all of a sudden, you're seeing over 35, the sea is still flat! Boy, that's the time to put in the reefs, right then!

If someone is motivated to travel by small sailboat, it is eminently doable. It will not be attractive to the kind of people who think being at sea should be like living in their flat. The living part is similar, but the environment is very different, and may give you unpleasant surprises.

Ann

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

I also learned something about wind vs. sea conditions. If it has been light, and all of a sudden, you're seeing over 35, the sea is still flat! Boy, that's the time to put in the reefs, right then!

Ann

Yep, and then if the winds have been near 35 knots for a day or so and suddenly drop down to less than 5 knots this can be a real pain also especially in shallow water where the waves will beat you up and you cannot sail away

[laika]

Originally Posted by Seeking Solace

They are always bigger in the dark.

Gosh, I dunno.. sometimes if it builds slowly after sundown, it takes the sun coming up for me to finally say, "wow, this really sucks!"

Especially in an early morning light when they have that hard steely grey look to them.

[Don C L]

Sometimes it is just better to NOT turn around and look to see what's following you

[merrydolphin]

Don’t know if its still around but for years my wife and I cruised foreign waters in both the Atlantic, Caribbean and Pacific with the Jack Line policy from IMIS of Annapolis MD they are now Gilbert ins. Brokerage. I had very good luck with them and this policy. Yes they did require periodic surveys. But I found that in less developed countries ( Cartagena Col and Mexico come to mind ) i got some pretty cheap and simple surveys. As things change in this industry not sure it’s available. Also back in 1992, Yes the year of Hur. Andrew! I had a total loss with Blue Water. I know that they filed for Bankruptcy. Not sure if they fulfilled all their clams or not. So good to hear that they are back.

[Sectorsteve]

My boat is 25 feet. Shes a tophat mark 1 from 1971. She has a double spreader rig, and 6.5mm stays. 8 in total including two backstays.
Ive set her up to go miles and have done so in the last few years. Ive been in 45 knots and huge seas in her. Shitting myself but she handles it fine. ive only been sailing 5 years and someone said to me about 3 years ago you should go out in rough stuff, when i was talkinf of sailing oceans. So at this time Id sailed about 15nm south from syd to port hacking and had to get back for work the next day. a southerly gale was forecasted. This was before i had any AP. I rode a biggish southerly and consistant 30 knots winds, getting into manly really quick. number 3 jib and 1 reef in the main. too much sail up, but...
So when you do this , you gain confidence. I also re rigged my boat myself after being quoted crazy money and no one available to do it anyway.. i unstepped the mast and did all sheaves, replaced some wire, etc. then i tuned it meticulously. After this i sailed solo to Jervis Bay. From Sydney. 90 nm. On the way back north we had forecasted 30 kn and 3/4m swell. I remember just seeing waves behind me and there tops were as high as my 9m mast. I hated it! But i got to Kiama safely. Also heaved to to make a cuppa on those conditions. No AP. always sheeted to tiller, but doesnt work downwind.
So after this trip I sailed 2000nm up to QLD and back to Jervis. The great thing about the smaller boat is you can go when and where others cant with more draft. during a heaving nor wester coming through the great sandy straits in fraser island we had less draft than the bigger boats. There was no shelter from the 40 knots. but the bigger boats were all sitting in it waiting for water. We sailed on through. Then anchored in the most sheltered spot we could find in about 35 knots. The next day overnighter to mooloolaba. in at 2am....
My experience with the smaller boat is as i mentioned here. She handles it. has heaps of storage. So far ive spent a few weeks without having to provision Before AP came along id heave to, to change headsail. Now with downhauls and more experience i keep going and douse a head sail and raise a smaller one from the cockpit. Its easy. Its almost what id imagine it would be like to have a furler. Right near my mooring is a tophat mark 1 called "Caprice" this 25 footer has been around the horns and its previous owners wrote a book called "2 in a tophat" Their son also has done this around the world , around the horns in a tophat with an outboard motor. Im utterly blown away by how she handles. Ive also taken the time to read, research and apply practical systems on my boat. for eg i do not have any excess weight above the waterline or at the ends. i have flexible light panels on the cabin top. no bimini, but a great make shift one that i designed and sowed up myself. it can be taken down in 20 seconds and handles 40knots which is more than the one i bought was rated for. its also very light using only fibreglass flexible tent poles at each end.
The keel has a hollow section and this is where i store extra anchors, i had cider brewing down there a few years ago on my trip.
Im now planning to sail her to NZ Via New Cal. This keel section will house a spare motor i have.
Ive just sold my house, so i can afford a bigger boat, but i dont want a bigger boat. Ive got a good boat!
Inside she is roomy and comfortable. Stereo was the first thing i did, great bose speakers. I added a fold up table level with the sink as i love to cook. I make hummous on route, cook roasts and make pizza in the coal bbq off the stern. I have a fridge freezer and an 80L Esky/Cooler that i replaced then cabin steps with. Fits perfectly there, is another seat and you can literally jump into the cockpit as its like a platform. Also hold alot of beer.
at the end of the v Berth is a chess board on a flat board used as a cover, where i keep spare sails , pots in pans. This board has many uses. Ive attached female hinges to this, and this has a spot in the cockpit and in the cabin to make a desk, dining, and chess. I work on my computer and draw for work so i need this. It works really well.
So in my view its important to be comfortable and not be overloaded. Typical tophats have an interior fitout. Mine has 2 berths, at the end of one is my fridge and batteries(soon to be replaced with lithium) Mine was a custom fitout and has more room and less weight in her as a result.
Back to seaworthiness etc. As i said ve only sailed 5 years, but in this time i really pushed it. When doing any coastal passages, (pittwater to sydney, to jervis bay etc.) Id always wait for the calmest weather. This was a bit dumb, because when the weather arcs up id freak out because id not been in that weather before. So i purposely put myself in bad weather. The sail from Jervis to Kiama was a gnarly one. Massive waves all around me, hand steering, in a following large sea, not being able to let go of the tiller for a second. VMR were constantly checking on me. White caps everywhere, not one boat in sight. Was scary - but doable. By being in those situations now a few times and in the dark etc, i dont freak when the weather changes. You just deal with it and know it will pass. Get the boat going as comfortable and in control as possible , whack the sounds on and try and relax.
im pretty nervous about my upcoming plans, but i cannot stop myself from doing it. It must happen, but im getting some flash gear like inreach satt comms, maybe a radar. Better VHF. ill also employ a forecaster for those passges to new cal and new cal to Auckland.

[hpeer]

We have a 44’ cutter we live aboard in the Caribbean during the winter. This is our principal “home.” We also have a 33’ cutter we have cruised and lived aboard for about 5 months.

The 44’er is a decent home. By today standards it’s a very simple boat. But it’s big enough for us and heavy enough to not roll a lot. So comfortable on the hook.

The 33’er though is my Wife’s preference although she allows it’s really too small to be our principal residence. She likes that it’s more her size, she is less intimidated by it, she can reach things and forces are smaller. She is very comfortable with the space for significant time periods. Then again we are 66 and 68 in age, so that may be a factor.

I’ve sailed the 44’er solo up to 7 days. No more than 3 on the 33’er. The bigger boat is more comfortable but I need to stay ahead on reefing. The 33 can be bashed around more, but the smaller gear and forces have some advantages.

I don’t think there is any one right answer at all. Not even for a specific couple.

I recall reading a book on solo techniques and that author spent a chapter on defining the perfect long distance solo boat: IIRC 32-36, long keel, cutter.

[Renegde_Sailor]

I have a Spencer 42, she is about 25,000 lbs loaded, a full keel boat and is a real champion! Really a tough as heck boat!

I have had her for 3 years and while it would be nice to have more space, really I think that means all id do is get more junk!

I can single hand this boat, I have no furling sails, I have no powered winches, eventually I am going to get an auto pilot. She is a lot of fun to sail!

I have seen many people with bigger boats that never leave the dock, they become floating condos, barges they live on. Why? Because running their boat is such a chore they do not want to do the work.

I think my boat is about the right size because I can sail her easily, and with enough wind she will bring 8-9 knots through the water. What more do you need?

[HappyGuy]

[QUOTE=Sectorsteve;2895884]My boat is 25 feet. Shes a tophat mark 1 from 1971. She has a double spreader rig, and 6.5mm stays. 8 in total including two backstays.

Sectorsteve. You should have no problem sailing your TopHat to New Caledonia and to NZ.as long as you are set up properly - and it sounds like you are.

A Whiting 25 (Reactor) did the New Plymouth to Mooloolaba race a few years ago with a lady skipper - and an 18 foot plywood boat (Swirly World in perpetuity) also did that race and return to NZ a few years before plus heaps more offshore voyaging - even as far south as the Auckland Islands at about 50 deg South

The East coast of the North Island down to Auckland has quite a few good harbours all with safe entrances. Beautiful cruising ground too. You'll love it!!
I spent many happy years cruising that coastline in the past in boats 22'6'' to 24'.

You can clear in at Opua in the Bay of Islands if you wish.

The only other thing I would say is to learn how to heave-to properly as cold front of 40 knots+ are not uncommon in that part of the world.

[Chotu]

Interesting thread. A lot of people focus on the condo aspects or the interior space of a boat in this thread. I’d say large boats are the best to cruise and not because of these reasons, but because they are just better when it gets choppy. It’s far more comfortable to cruise in something that’s bigger.

It’s also more safe. The size of a wave needed to capsize a vessel is proportional to the length of the vessel.

Simply put, bigger boats can just handle more easily.

[boatman61]

Now this is where I tend to disagree having survived a December Biscay gale in a 22ft 'little ship' that sank 3 large fishing boats within 50nm of me in one night.
But I guess its something one has to experience to appreciate.
Its down to the type of boat, I doubt a modern fin keeler would have survived

[HappyGuy]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Now this is where I tend to disagree having survived a December Biscay gale in a 22ft 'little ship' that sank 3 large fishing boats within 50nm of me in one night.
But I guess its something one has to experience to appreciate.
Its down to the type of boat, I doubt a modern fin keeler would have survived

EXACTLY Boatman61 !!
My experience tells me that size has very little to do with seaworthiness.
The important factors are good design and sound construction.
Also knowing how to heave too properly in storms.

[Exile]

What about seakindliness? Or maybe in the eye of the beholder?

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Now this is where I tend to disagree having survived a December Biscay gale in a 22ft 'little ship' that sank 3 large fishing boats within 50nm of me in one night.
But I guess its something one has to experience to appreciate.
Its down to the type of boat, I doubt a modern fin keeler would have survived

Now what were you doing out there in December?
My own experience with my ol' 24' and my buddy's 20' Signet, though I didn't ride out any gales, lead me to agree. I'd love to see the math and physics of it but I suspect it has to do with a smaller boat just being more prone to roll with the punches rather than fight them. As long as you're keeping the water out of the inside of the boat anyway. There is just a lot less boat and weight to shove around and for waves to get a handle on. You can bob up and ride over some things that a heavier boat will try to punch through. I remember one windy day with some rather large hills of green water around, capped with breaking white whipping cream at times, a clorox bottle went scudding by, enjoying very little drama. I thought, that little thing can endure anything, but I am glad I am not on the inside of it!

[HappyGuy]

Originally Posted by Exile

What about seakindliness? Or maybe in the eye of the beholder?

Again it boils down to design - not size in my opinion.
I did over 6000 nautical miles in a NZ 22'6" Alan Wright design twin keel yacht years ago.

One evening a mate and I beat out into the Hauraki Gulf in a NNW wind which built from about 10 knots to a steady 30 knots - gusting 35 by the time we got out near Channel Island.
Wind from that direction gives unlimited fetch.
At that point we heaved to for about half an hour, made an hot drink and then ran back into Auckland.

That boat was of medium displacement.
Heavier displacement boats are significantly more comfortable than lightweight displacement boats in my experience.
And well designed heavy displacement boats are not slow if designed properly.

Later I sailed a Sparkman and Stevens 24 for thousands of miles from Auckland to Great Barrier Island, Whangarei and Bay of Islands. Beautiful comfortable little boat.

No boat is really comfortable in heavy seas - but some are more comfortable than others.