Challenge: Outboard Lifelines

[GorillaToast]

Not an experience in open ocean, but the first time I capsized (turtled actually) a 14' dinghy, I could not pull myself up on the hull and had to be rescued by a skinny little 15yr old from the sailing school. The next time out I had made up a line with loops to grab when the boat went over, that I could use as a ladder to pull myself up. That worked to get me on the hull and the centerboard to right the boat, but as the boat came up it tossed me back out into the water, and I couldn't pull myself over the side using the loop line. my legs just kept going under the boat as I put weight on the line. I ended up swimming after the boat for an hour as she merrily sailed around the lake until some guys grabbed her, and towed her back to shore. I swam to the dock. The third time, I had a webbing ladder attached to the stern, and was able to get in that way.

I can't even imagine how hard it would be to get back in a boat whose deck is 2 or more feet above the waterline. That's why for me, staying on the boat is the only viable option for survival. Although, I do like the idea of towing your dink so the line is floating and won't get fouled in your prop. I suppose a strong man could pull himself along it to the transom and reach the swim ladder, provided one was installed and it could be reached from the water at all times.

[ShaunJ]

Originally Posted by dougwm10

I assume this refers to boats on passage and not day sailing close to land.

Having read through the posts I can see that some means for getting back on board would be a sensible precaution.

I would suggest a number of short lengths of rope with a loop at one end and a snap shackle at the other end. The loop end just trailing in the water. The snap shackle can be easily clipped to the toe rail or lifeline stanchions.

The number required being dependant on the size and construction of the boat. But sufficient for attachment to both sides at points where climbing back on-board can
be facilitated.

Advantages - easily and quickly fixed and removed. Not long enough to get pulled into the prop, cost effective.

Disadvantages - Please comment if you can envisage any

Dougwm

I don't see any disadvantages in getting hooked up to one of these, but what happens next? Is there something else we can do to get on board?

ShaunJ

[Feral Cement]

Originally Posted by GorillaToast

I suppose a strong man could pull himself along it to the transom and reach the swim ladder, provided one was installed and it could be reached from the water at all times.

A short line with a knot in the end to pull that well-secured swim ladder into a useable position would be helpful.

My beam is ~10 feet. I use a 2' tether. Depending on where I am, the jackline moves about 1 - 2 feet off center. That gives me 4 feet of range each side times 2 = 8 feet. My reach is almost 4'. If I can't reach it, it isn't part of my boat.

John

[beetle]

Originally Posted by lockie

I can’t haul myself up to the deck, so I reach for my knife and cut the tether and hopefully I can hand-over-hand my way along the lifelines to the stern.

Odds are good you won't be strong enough to do this.

Originally Posted by lockie

Now, consider an alternative: I read in one of Jimmy Cornell’s books how he has a line on each side draped outboard of the lifelines, running from bow to stern, and I started to wonder: if I have a dual tether, or maybe a dedicated very short one as well as the main one, in theory I could use this to clip onto the “outboard lifeline”, then cut my main tether. Then I’d be swept along and fetch up at the stern where I might have some chance of getting onto the ladder.

That's a fairly standard design - a second set of jack lines run along outside the lifelines, attached (ideally) to the same set of strong points as the on-deck jack lines. As you point out, if you go over, you clip into the exterior jack line with your second tether, release the first tether and you'll move to the back of the boat fairly quickly.

The jacklines are attached to the boat such that you are at the transom when trailing on the tether. You will need to sort out a ladder arrangement to get back on board. A climber's etrier can be carried in your pocket and clipped into a hard point (if you can reach it), or you could pre-attach an etrier or other ladder on each side of the transom.

- rob/beetle

[hummingway]

Originally Posted by beetle

Odds are good you won't be strong enough to do this.


That's a fairly standard design - a second set of jack lines run along outside the lifelines, attached (ideally) to the same set of strong points as the on-deck jack lines. As you point out, if you go over, you clip into the exterior jack line with your second tether, release the first tether and you'll move to the back of the boat fairly quickly.

The jacklines are attached to the boat such that you are at the transom when trailing on the tether. You will need to sort out a ladder arrangement to get back on board. A climber's etrier can be carried in your pocket and clipped into a hard point (if you can reach it), or you could pre-attach an etrier or other ladder on each side of the transom.

- rob/beetle

Thanks for clarifying Rob. I clearly misunderstood the OP. That still leaves you the task, in the case of a transom mounted swim ladder, of reaching and deploying the ladder and then getting on it.

[MarkJ]

I clip on to inboard points where there is not enough length to go overboard.
The inner forstay is great for it. On the boaw I put the line through the rails so its short.
In the cockpit I have a short jackline so I can move all round but not over the combing

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

I clip on to inboard points where there is not enough length to go overboard.
The inner forstay is great for it. On the boaw I put the line through the rails so its short.
In the cockpit I have a short jackline so I can move all round but not over the combing

Yup... the only time Mark removes his harness is for mid-atlantic filming.... spoils the body contours....

[w1651]

Run your lines outside the life lines and tie them off at the stern rail. Also run a 100 ft polypropolene line with a flotation (milk jug or whatever) at one end directly behind your boat.
At the other end tie off at the stern. In Between connect the stern swim ladder and autopilot by way off knots, chords or pins. This way if you do fall overboard when you grab onto the poly line trailing your boat at the stern it pulls the ladder down and cuts off the autopilot. If your boat has weather helm it will turn up into the wind and slow.

Then pull yourself to your boat, climb up the ladder, and say a prayer of thanks to god for letting you live.
I would also recommend a sampson post at the bow to tie a lifeline off of. Something able to take a hard pull.

[sarafina]

damn. that is so simple and clever.

nice work!

[w1651]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Yup... the only time Mark removes his harness is for mid-atlantic filming.... spoils the body contours....

Thanks Boatman

I know I'm going to sleep better with that visual in my head..

[w1651]

Originally Posted by sarafina

damn. that is so simple and clever.

nice work!

I can't take full credit for it unfortunately. I read it in a book a while back and thought it was a really smart way to do things.

[nicely done]

Would you ride a motor bike without a helmet? Would you do a high wire act without a safety net? I wouldn't! I sail alone. Tether on,trail a small float and leave a cheap collapsible boarding ladder over the side.At 74 this is the only way my wife will let me sail alone. Please don't try to be too macho. Tragedies give sailing a bad name. Aways err on the safe side. Nicely

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by w1651

Run your lines outside the life lines and tie them off at the stern rail. Also run a 100 ft polypropolene line with a flotation (milk jug or whatever) at one end directly behind your boat.
At the other end tie off at the stern. In Between connect the stern swim ladder and autopilot by way off knots, chords or pins. This way if you do fall overboard when you grab onto the poly line trailing your boat at the stern it pulls the ladder down and cuts off the autopilot. If your boat has weather helm it will turn up into the wind and slow.

Then pull yourself to your boat, climb up the ladder, and say a prayer of thanks to god for letting you live.
I would also recommend a sampson post at the bow to tie a lifeline off of. Something able to take a hard pull.

6 knots = 10.1268591 feet per second
9 knots = 15.1902887 feet per second

The chance of this idea saving your hide is pretty slim, especially after dark. Assuming you would need at least 3 seconds after going overboard to surface and orient yourself to swim toward the rope that leaves you less than 6 seconds to reach and grab it (encumbered by clothes, PFD and footwear). The average adult regardless of age would not have the grip and upper body strength hold a line rushing past in the water at that speed, in fact most "fit" people couldn't hold on with both hands in anything over about 3 or 4 knots. The grip strength needed to hold on while accelerating from 0-6 knots nearly instantly would be beyond reality for anyone but Superman.

The best idea is to tie in (in such a way that you can't be keel-hauled) and stay aboard.

One more thing -- running jacklines in such a way that they allow you to go overboard is not wise. Keep them inside and wear double tethers if necessary (so you can transfer from one to another) to keep from going overboard.

[nicely done]

SailFastTry, You are spot-on and I agree whole heartedly but please don't tell my wife that.
regards
Nicely

[Orrjames]

How about two equal tethers, with jack lines fitted to the vessel in increments? Fore to aft in the cockpit, stern to main mast both sides, mast to bow both sides . Use one tether at a time while you move . Make sure all jack lines are tight, and your tethers adjusted to keep you from going past the lifelines. A scramble rope led fore to aft on the outside? I like it. A trailing line in heavy seas? Like that too, put a big loop in the end for extra fun. Your prop is probably in front of the rudder so as long as your moving ahead your all good? Lol good luck!