Challenge: Offshore in a J24

[rgscpat]

Assuming it's an older J, we'd assume the vermiculite/keel has been addressed as well as providing actual locking for the cockpit lockers. One challenge with adding a few hundred pounds weight to the keel to improve the ballast ratio would be that it would be that much harder to add enough flotation to make the J a less resistant to sinking. Plus the extra keel weight, on top of all the provisions, would lower the water line so much that you might want to re-do the cockpit drains and through hulls... a ton of modifications and provisions might make for a good three or four inches of lowered waterline.

But it would be interesting to see what happens.

[roverhi]

There is a J-24 available real cheap and thought for a minute of buying it. Then I remembered a very pleasant sail we had from Alameda to the harbor at Angel Island. We sailed over in shorts and T shirts and were quite comfortable even though we had to reef for the beat between Yerba Buena and Angel Island. A J 24 came in after us. The crew had on full weather gear">foul weather gear which they immediately peeled off to dry out after getting thoroughly soaked and beaten up on the mostly reaching condition sail over from SF. Decided that a J-24 may be able to handle the real world but I wouldn't on such a wet boat. Masochistic tendencies should be high on the list for anyone planning on taking one on a long voyage.

[SaltyMonkey]

Sailed a j/24 owned by a friend of mine out of Berkeley marina for a year every week we could. Love going around Angel island in a tide. Strange winds though. Had a wonderful sailing season. She was really nice, until we decided to head under the gate. What a dumb idea that was.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Randyonr3

I'm a member of the SSS out of SF and have done a number of offshore races, winning my share in a Catalina 22 MK ll with a fin keel.. you can check the arcives ..
was planning on doing the Single handed Transpac in the 22 but added the numbers and they didnt look good.. The J 24 is more than capable of doing the trip, The last couple years the Moore 24 have been toing very well..
My concern with my boat and the transpac was weight issues.. the dry weight of the boat was around 26 hundred pounds.. when stores were loaded for the trip, the weight of the boat gained another 1000 to 1200 pounds.. thats adding 1/3 to 1/2 the weight of the boat again to the origional. thus changing the way the boat handles..
the same stores of 1000 to 1200 pounds in a 30 foot boat weighing in at 15 thousand would have less affect..
the heaveyer weight in the smaller boat would cause a slower pace so more stores would have to be added for the additional time, thus adding more weight and again, more time to get there.......

The closest thing to a 30' boat displacing 15k that I know of is the Westsail28, which is even more undercanvassed than the Westsail32. Safety issues aside, I'd take the J24 any day of the week with 2000lb extra aboard and still expect to get there sooner.

Ignoring the advisability of taking a J24 offshore, what would you do to make the boat more seaworthy?

[Billy Higgins]

In a Force 6 a J-24 can pull a windward broach if it is sailed single-handed, so among the other fine suggestions in this thread* I would add water ballast. My thoughts would be to skip the J-24, and get an Olson 30. Or pretty much anything else, really; the boat is just too damned wide to be safe offshore.

*Especially:
replace the rudder gudeons and pintles with stronger
make the hatch like a super-waterproof Mini Transat
eliminate all other areas of downflooding potential

[Adelie]

Suddenly this thread has real world relevance: Webb Chiles is apparently intending to take a Moore 24 RTW.

The Moore is 1000lb lighter, and 1' narrower than a J/24.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by Adelie

No, I have no interest in doing this, but a confluence of things made the question pop into my head "What would you do to a J24 if you wanted to go offshore in one?"

So here's the challenge:
J24
San Francisco to Hawai'i and back.
Boat does NOT have to remain class legal.
1 or 2 people aboard.
You will gunkhole around the Islands before returning.

Here's some info on the boat: http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=245.

Tonight I started reading 'Black Feathers' the story of the guy who took a Cal20 on the 2008 Single Handed TransPac. Also this evening there was a thread doing on the list for the sailing club I used to be active in in Seattle discussing why J24's seem to have a propensity to capsize and sink. That's how this question popped into my head.

So here are my ideas:

The boat has a very serious stability issue, the AVS is just over 90deg. The first thing I would do is bolt a 300-400lb bulb to the bottom of the keel. There's a company (Mars Metals?) that makes bulbs for DIY installation.

Realizing the bulb will only help so much, I accept that capsizing is still a serious possiblity and would install floatation. There's two ways to go here: Styrofoam blocks or something inflatable.
If money was not much of an issue and I was racing I would be most likely to go inflatable for the weight savings. In either instance I would want floatation secured forward and in each quarter as high as possible and a long strip secured along each side again just under the deck. The goal being to have the boat floating as high as possible when inverted, so it is easier for another wave to roll back upright.

Bulkheads coming adrift are a recurring problem, I would triple up the tabbing.

Water intrusion thru cockpit hatches is also a known problem. I would seal the hatches, probably by glassing them over.

I would add backrest coamings and a dodger. I would probably install a block of styrofoam at the back of the cockpit to decrease its volume and there would suddenly be monster drains out the back end of the boat.

I would install a masthead halyard and a short, retractable sprit for a CodeZero. I would give serious consideration to running an extra set of cap shrouds up to the mast head.

Self-steering would either be a DIY windvane with trim tab on the outboard rudder or a very light commercial windvane such as a used Navik or a Mr. Vane.

I would install a chain pawl and a small bow roller. I would carry 125' of 1/4" chain and a 25lb main anchor. I would carry a medium sized Fortress with maybe 20' of chain. Plus of course all the extra line that normally goes with anchors.

I raced J24s for 2 years and love the boat, or more accurately love one design racing. Longest stretch on board was a delivery against current with little wind and a 5hp outboard - time on board was about 12 hours. The cockpit has no backrest and I have never been so knackered as when I got of the J that day. The boat is light and bobs arounnd like a cork. Every bob and weave is a muscle in your body that reacts to keep you upright. I would say repeated trips to the foredeck in bigger seas could be dangerous due to the motion of the boat.

Adding a bulb to the keel seems a good idea at first until you calculate the additonal loads and then examine the attaching structure. Same with adding coamings, backrests, dodgers and any other structures above the waterline. Add up the weight of all you will add to just make the boat "stronger" and more comfortable. Then add water & stores. You now have a boat that is unrecognizable as a J24.

The J24 is pretty wet. With the jib and main it is still a pretty powerful boat. Might consider a reefing main as well. Other than convenience I see no need for a furling spinnaker. Dump the windvane idea and add a tiller pilot and you can fly the spin solo. Now you have battery and power issues. Not much flat area for solar panels. targa rail? Another weight penalty.

Plenty of other more suitable boats out there.