Brokers

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by Shrew

grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
courage to change the things I can,
and wisdom to know the difference.

Best of luck convincing the internet that the brokerage industry needs to bend to your will.

This isn't "the internet". This is a community that represents a significant enough portion of the brokered boat buyers and sellers that if we all stopped accepting unacceptable norms from brokers we could change those norms. Asking brokers to treat potential buyers with the basic respect of replying to their questions isn't "bending to my will". It's not even "my will", it's just basic good manners and commons sense that I would think you too would be in favor of, pithy sayings or not?

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

This isn't "the internet". This is a community that represents a significant enough portion of the brokered boat buyers and sellers that if we all stopped accepting unacceptable norms from brokers we could change those norms. Asking brokers to treat potential buyers with the basic respect of replying to their questions isn't "bending to my will". It's not even "my will", it's just basic good manners and commons sense that I would think you too would be in favor of, pithy sayings or not?

How many boats have you purchased through a broker?

[Mike OReilly]

As I said, for low to perhaps mid-range boats, brokers mostly just get in the way. Too often they can't, or won't, put in the time necessary to respond fully to potential buyers.

I get why ... It takes some time to become knowledgeable about each boat on their roster, and it takes time to respond to queries. And there are a lot of tire-kickers at this range -- probably more so than at the higher end. But every tire-kicker is a potential buyer. That's how people have to start.

If a broker isn't willing to respond promptly to all reasonable requests for information, then they aren't doing their job. This produces the common frustration that most buyers in this area of the market experience. And I think it does their clients, the sellers, a disservice as well.

Brokers who cannot or will not put in the necessary time and effort to fully service all the boats on their roster should simply refuse to take them on.

[sail sfbay]

Magic1st and Mike,

Maybe my experience is unique but I have only had GOOD marine broker experiences in the California Delta, San Francisco Bay and in Los Angeles buying/selling used sail and power boats from $20,000 - $200,000. If you intend to go through a broker and you are not getting the answers you want from the seller's broker then contract with a broker you trust/know to represent your purchase. That will eliminate any communication issues and get you the answers you are looking for.

[Ruso]

Originally Posted by sail sfbay

Magic1st and Mike,

Maybe my experience is unique but I have only had GOOD marine broker experiences in the California Delta, San Francisco Bay and in Los Angeles buying/selling used sail and power boats from $20,000 - $200,000. If you intend to go through a broker and you are not getting the answers you want from the seller's broker then contract with a broker you trust/know to represent your purchase. That will eliminate any communication issues and get you the answers you are looking for.

I don't know how hiring buyer broker (one more communication break point)can help to obtain reliable information.
The broker's listings ridiculous on absence of information.
I always asking broker for direct contact via e-mail with seller on tech. information. Forwarding my e-mail to seller works as well.
I want to have the boat tech data in writing to avoid verbal miss-information, before traveling a few hundreds miles.
If I don't get broker reply and I really like the boat - I search Internet for the boat traces and engage with the seller directly. Works always if I found the seller. In some cases I even found previous owner(s) and all of them where very helpful.

[sail sfbay]

Very sorry you are having difficulty with seller's broker!! Lots of interesting opinions on this thread. In my experience I hire a broker to sell (or purchase) my boat without any direct interaction with the buyer just as I have done with all my personal and business transactions. If my broker cannot perform then I cancel their contract and contract with one that can.

So what is the conclusion on brokers and what does the OP plan to do in the purchase of a boat? AND what boat mfg, year, model does he/she looking to buy and how much does he/she plan to spend, i.e., budget?

[Ruso]

I have mixed experience. Majority of them very helpful - just a few cases when no reply or not willing to communicate. I guess I am "tire kicker" from their perspective - I should show-up and make cash offer (40k-60k) right after seeing the boat.

[SVHarmonie]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

To say that those of us who have had these poor experiences shouldn't be advocating for yacht brokers to have the common human decency to stop doing the equivalent of turning their back on us and ignoring us when we walk up to them and try talk to them....that's just a baffling stand to decide to take? And to belittle that as something somehow unimportant and beneath you and not worthy of advocating to change....what's that all about?

RNR,

Feel free to “advocate” all you want, you certainly do NOT need my approval to do so, but other then whining on an Internet forum, I am not at all sure what that “advocating” looks like. I’ll bet getting EVERYBODY who posts here about how horrible brokers are together and staging a strike to not talk to a broker EVER until they talk to you first will be way more entertaining than effective.

If I felt like “advocating” for a change in the way people behave in this world, and had anan effective way of doing that, there are a lot of higher priority causes in the world—like almost every one I can think of.

Running around stomping your feet because “yacht brokers ignore me!” really sounds like The ULTIMATE first world problem. It’s almost worthy of a cartoon in the New Yorker...

[CarlF]

If you want a broker to spend some time on you - qualify yourself.

In your email say:

I currently own a Pearson 32 that I keep in Newport but would like a slightly bigger boat. I plan to buy this summer and a Tartan 38 is on my shortlist. Could I call you about the the Tartan you have listed? I could call today at 2PM or tomorrow at 3PM.

After the one phone call I find I can do the rest of the conversation by emails and get quick replies. But even then, I limit the questions to things that I really need to know before seeing the boat.

[SVHarmonie]

Just as an aside, the yacht broker term for the unserious buyer is not “tire kicker” it’s “Gopher Whistler”

As in:

Wanna be boat owner: “What’s she go ‘fer?”
Broker: “$450,000”
Wanna be boat owner: [Whistles sadly, and walks away]

If you have ever spent any time in a boat broker or manufactuer’s booth at a boat show you have heard this over, and over, and...

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by SVHarmonie

Just as an aside, the yacht broker term for the unserious buyer is not “tire kicker” it’s “Gopher Whistler”

As in:

Wanna be boat owner: “What’s she go ‘fer?”
Broker: “$450,000”
Wanna be boat owner: [Whistles sadly, and walks away]

If you have ever spent any time in a boat broker or manufactuer’s booth at a boat show you have heard this over, and over, and...

That’s all sales.

And frankly the mindset seeing folks as a tire kicker is often witnessed in under preforming sales people, asking what something goes for and not taking the asking price is common in most expensive items, lack of understanding is the difference between being a seller and a owner with a perpetual for sale sign.

Nothing wrong with DQing a customer, but it’s not something you should be quick to do.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by NorthernMac

That’s all sales.

And frankly the mindset seeing folks as a tire kicker is often witnessed in under preforming sales people...

Nothing wrong with DQing a customer, but it’s not something you should be quick to do.

Yep. Probably often, a prospect who may be a "tire kicker" on boat A... can actually be turned into a buyer on boat B, C, or D, etc... given proper attention...

-Chris

[MicHughV]

I get the feeling that some brokers don't want to waste their time with a " tire kicker" as a "real buyer" could pop into their office at any time, and they don't want to that "real buyer" to go to another agent while they are tied up with a "tire kicker".

Some years ago, pre-internet days, I had a friend that was a yacht broker and often hung out with him at his office. Actually bought a boat thru' him. It took several months to get to close the deal as he represented both me and the seller and he hung in there the entire time, not as just a friend, but as a broker.

It's an interesting business that is for sure. My take is that most brokers are willing to go the extra mile for you and that has always been my experience.

True, there might be bad apple here and there, but you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater here.

At that same office mentioned above, there were other brokers that certainly had an "attitude"...I think a history of dealing with " tire kickers" is likely the root cause.

Selecting a boat and a broker requires some due diligence, on you, the prospective buyer.
Nobody wants to deal with a crusty old curmudgeon...which can go both ways.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

I get the feeling that some brokers don't want to waste their time with a " tire kicker" as a "real buyer" could pop into their office at any time, and they don't want to that "real buyer" to go to another agent while they are tied up with a "tire kicker".

To me, that's where emails are useful. At least when car shopping and trying to decide which ones I want to go see, being able to ask a few questions and hopefully get a response saves time for everyone. If I can get a quick answer to a few things and maybe a picture of something that wasn't shown in the ad, it's only a few minutes of their time, and now I have the extra info to decide if I want to go see the car (and take up more of the person's time) or if I'm going to pass on that one. Much better than going to look at it, then deciding to pass (and wasting everyone's time in the end).

Of course, some ads are good enough to just skip that step and make the initial decision from the ad alone. Many, unfortunately, are not.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

To me, that's where emails are useful. At least when car shopping and trying to decide which ones I want to go see, being able to ask a few questions and hopefully get a response saves time for everyone. If I can get a quick answer to a few things and maybe a picture of something that wasn't shown in the ad, it's only a few minutes of their time, and now I have the extra info to decide if I want to go see the car (and take up more of the person's time) or if I'm going to pass on that one. Much better than going to look at it, then deciding to pass (and wasting everyone's time in the end).

The broker we've been working with recently showed a boat in the morning one day last week, then drove 100 miles up here to take pics of another boat he was getting ready to list, then drove another 20 miles north to be here on our boat the next day for the buyer's survey and sea trial... then returned home, finished listing the new boat, swamped me and our buyer with paperwork...

Wash/rinse/almost repeat the next week: finish paperwork here, off to show a different boat another 10 miles further north, then back to his home area to swamp somebody else with paperwork...

And in between all that, working the phone on some of the candidates we're looking at... and presumably doing that for his other customers too...

I understand those are maybe not normal days, but OTOH it wasn't like he had any spare time... Wasn't like he was sittin gon his thumbs...

-Chris