Brokers

[Fore and Aft]

Sailing August there is always going to be brokers. Lots of people just do not have the time to deal with cradle kickers.
There are plenty of good brokers out there. Colin from Mooloolaba is exceptional in my opinion. I once surveyed a $16,000 yacht for him that had a broken gear shift cable. He purchased the cable and fitted it so we could motor to the slipway, then after the survey he offered to buy me and the buyer lunch. I was too embarrased to say yes as I had probably made as much money as him that day. That is how Colin works, the last survey he turned up with hot meat pies and pastry's for everyone. He really knows how to give good service and consequently sells a lot of boats.
Cheers

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Yeah, sure, but... in the meantime, lots of brokers are old guys... Just recognizing that for the current broker population, insisting on communicating your way might not get you the boat your after.

Absolutely. As a buyer, I will do what I need to do to find the boat I want, at the right price. That includes making phone calls when I must, though I prefer an e-mail contact to begin. The broker who responds to my e-mail will probably get my business. The one who does not will only get my business if I have no other choice.

I am not trying to tell buyers NOT to use the phone. I am simply trying to point out that those who think "serious" buyers will always prefer to use the phone, are completely wrong. They are living in the last century. And those who try to excuse brokers who ignore e-mails, are failing to see reality. Brokers who believe that they can safely ignore e-mails will be out of business soon. Mainly because, those who respond to e-mails are going to have a much wider pool of serious prospects to work with, and those who don't will have an ever dwindling pool to work with.

[redneckrob]

This use of the term "tire kickers" and the assertion that anyone who could be one deserves to be flat out ignored is a bit funny. The folks posting that are trying to impose 1970s car buying onto the boat buying process, which may be OK. But even in the "good old days" of the 70s if you were a used car salesman and a "tire kicker" showed up on your lot and asked you a question even the biggest jerk of a salesman didn't ignore him, refuse to even respond to the question, and pretend the customer didn't exist. Which is exactly what boat brokers routinely do today to customers who email them.

It's inexplicable why they feel they have the right to do that, and even more inexplicable why anyone would defend this kind of behavior which completely lacks basic human decency and respect.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

This use of the term "tire kickers" and the assertion that anyone who could be one deserves to be flat out ignored is a bit funny. The folks posting that are trying to impose 1970s car buying onto the boat buying process, which may be OK. But even in the "good old days" of the 70s if you were a used car salesman and a "tire kicker" showed up on your lot and asked you a question even the biggest jerk of a salesman didn't ignore him, refuse to even respond to the question, and pretend the customer didn't exist. Which is exactly what boat brokers routinely do today to customers who email them.

It's inexplicable why they feel they have the right to do that, and even more inexplicable why anyone would defend this kind of behavior which completely lacks basic human decency and respect.

Don't remember seeing anyone say "deserves...." and I don't really see anyone here blatantly defending such behavior...

And in any case, I too would expect the more people a brokers talks (emails, texts, whatever) with, the more successful sales they might have.

Anyway, I think many of the responses here were more about possible explanations of "why?" -- and how maybe to get around all that if a specific boat is really maybe gonna be "the one."

-Chris

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by ranger42c

Anyway, I think many of the responses here were more about possible explanations of "why?" -- and how maybe to get around all that if a specific boat is really maybe gonna be "the one."

Exactly!!!!! I've never had a problem with a broker's responsiveness, but I simply try to adjust my approach to how they work. I can't make the world work the way I want it too, regardless of how much I disagree with it.

Folks can disagree with me all they want, but I'm not the one setting policy or precedence here. I'm just suggesting what works.

As my grandmother used to say "You can jump up and down and scream at the top of your lungs, but at the end of the day you'll only end up with a sore throat and swollen feet."

[sail sfbay]

Originally Posted by Magic1st

...........I have yet to talk to a broker for a boat I have contacted.............My questions are simple; for example, is it available and is it on the hard or in the water. Do brokers not want to sell a boat?

My 2 cents: 1. visit the broker IN PERSON where the boat is being sold, usually in the water (this is what I always do); 2. HIRE our own broker who can represent you. I did this when I was looking for a large motor yacht to live on.

[BlueH2Obound]

Originally Posted by Shrew

Exactly!!!!! I've never had a problem with a broker's responsiveness, but I simply try to adjust my approach to how they work. I can't make the world work the way I want it too, regardless of how much I disagree with it.

Shrew, I agree with what you stated above, but with a recent broker he (in a phone call) stated he'd get with the owner, and get the answer to questions I had regarding the fuel tanks (which he, the broker stated were all serviceable).

When I asked him if the boat had a bow thruster, he stated "In XX years of ownership, the owner never NEEDED a bow thruster!" . . . but never specifically addressed my question. Coming from my two previous boats that were single engine, no thrusters, I know how to handle a single, but instead of just answering my question, his response was pretty snide.

He never answered my question re/ the fuel tanks that he was supposed to get with the owner about, and then just stopped replying to my e-mails, voicemails, and wouldn't answer his phone . . . kind of difficult to "adjust my approach" in THIS case.

Anyway, when I finally chased down the owner, he was very helpful, and answered every question I asked, I thought truthfully and completely. Turns out the aft two fuel tanks were taken out of service almost 20 years ago, due to leaks. He stated that the broker KNEW that . . . The failed tanks were still in the boat, and the broker was still advertising the extra 300 gallons fuel capacity, even though, according to the Owner, the broker knew all along that the tanks leaked . . . draw your own conclusions about that.

We ended up traveling to view the boat without the brokers involvement, and almost made an offer on her . . . but it would have gone through the same broker . . . who we didn't feel we could do business with due to what had transpired.

I fully think that we would have been happy with the boat, but as it turned out, another one we had seen and liked much more recently came available and we'll see.

The original brokers evasions, refusal to respond to basic questions, and apparent misrepresentation of the boats condition, which we verified, potentially cost the Seller a sale, and the broker a commission . . . . His business, his rules, I understand, but as a result of his selling style, HIS and the SELLER's loss!

Because when all is said and done, he was trying to sell a boat, and he failed. At the end of the day, we decided to take our $$$ elsewhere.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by sail sfbay

My 2 cents: 1. visit the broker IN PERSON where the boat is being sold, usually in the water (this is what I always do); 2. HIRE our own broker who can represent you. I did this when I was looking for a large motor yacht to live on.

Suggesting that buyers should need to visit a broker IN PERSON in order to find out basic information about the boat is patently absurd, especially when you're talking about a several hundred thousand dollar purchase! When I was buying my boat I was searching from Maine to the Caribbean, and brokers were located across 2000 miles. I wanted a very specific boat and knew exactly what I wanted, I was a cash buyer, and obviously serious because I ended up buying exactly that boat. Are you seriously advocating that I traveled to the location of the broker (sometimes 500 miles away from the location of the boat they were listing) just to find out a showstopper item like if the boat had 500 or 5,000 hours on the engine? Something I would have done dozens of times in addition to the several trips I was happy to make to look at boats that did meet my basic requirements. Expecting that my buyer's representative do the same is equally absurd.
Welcome to 2020! It takes seconds to reply to an email and I can't imagine how anyone is better off by insisting on an in person meeting to decide if a boat in question even meets a buyers basic purchase parameters?

[NorthernMac]

I never got the broker thing ether.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by Shrew

Exactly!!!!! I've never had a problem with a broker's responsiveness, but I simply try to adjust my approach to how they work. I can't make the world work the way I want it too, regardless of how much I disagree with it.

Folks can disagree with me all they want, but I'm not the one setting policy or precedence here. I'm just suggesting what works.

As my grandmother used to say "You can jump up and down and scream at the top of your lungs, but at the end of the day you'll only end up with a sore throat and swollen feet."

No disrespect to your grandmother, but I wonder how much positive change in the world she was able to drive with that attitude? Pointing out asinine behavior and refusing to accept a status queue that is absurd is how we make things better. We actually can make the world work the way we want it to, especially when the way it's working has no reasonable justification.

That's especially true in this case, where there aren't a lot of us buyers and sellers in our little niche of the world and it wouldn't take too many of us to simply refuse to play by idiotic "policy" or "precedence" in order to change what is indisputably a sub-optimal and moronic way of buying and selling boats.

[alex_sauvage]

QUOTE As my grandmother used to say "You can jump up and down and scream at the top of your lungs, but at the end of the day you'll only end up with a sore throat and swollen feet."[/QUOTE]

I am sorry, but judging by recent events this statement does not work anymore😁. No disrespect to your grandmother.

[MicHughV]

It's a mixed bag that is for sure.

A lot of brokers are willing to show you a boat that is handily tied up at a marina next to their office, especially if it is their listing...but having to jump in a car to show a boat elsewhere is a giant pain in the butt for them.

A lot of these brokers can pretty much tell if a prospective buyer is the real deal or just another tire kicker, so it can go both ways.
Calling them on the phone is pretty much a tire kicking exercise for them, go meet them in their office for better results.

Most any broker works on a commission basis, no sale, no money for them, so their enthusiasm for showing you a boat is very much dependent on their take of your ability to actually be able to afford and buy a boat.

This is especially true if there is a buying broker and a selling broker...as they have to spit the commission and really only one broker is doing all the work, your broker, the selling broker gets to sit on his butt..and wait for the commission check to roll in.

Sticking with one broker is not always the best plan. Any sense of " loyalty" you might have for a broker can cost you money in the end. Brokers like for you to stick with them as you represent a possible pay check for them. You are a big $$ sign for them.

Best bet is to do your own research, find a boat you like, and then contact that boat's broker. Taking along a new broker to see another broker's boat can be a touchy issue, as the first thing the selling broker thinks is..."S--t, now I'm gonna havta split the commission"..

My experience has been that most experienced boat brokers know each other, and try to respect each other's turf, but there is also a fair amount of wheelin' dealin' going on.

Most brokers work for a brokerage company, so there is that angle too. The company wants its share of the pie too. The final $$ amount the broker puts in his pocket is a small percentage of the usual 10% fee.

Then, on the other hand, I've known brokers willing to cross state lines....even fly somewhere to show a boat. These excursions are often done out of pocket for them.

It can be very annoying to have a broker that knows next to nothing about a boat he or she is showing to you. That's when the bulls--tting begins.

A broker's worth is really all the financing, surveys, documentation, etc...and the myriads of other paperwork involved.

Do some due diligence. Many brokers have online reviews of their selling prowess. It is easy enuff to contact a previous buyer' opinion.

I have bought and sold many boats, from small to large, power and sail. I've tried selling them myself, without much success and have had much better luck going thru' a broker, but it does require some homework on your part.

It's much like buying a new car. To the sales rep you are nothing but a $$ to them, and you often have to endure a lot of blathering to get to the bottom line.

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

No disrespect to your grandmother, but I wonder how much positive change in the world she was able to drive with that attitude? Pointing out asinine behavior and refusing to accept a status queue that is absurd is how we make things better. We actually can make the world work the way we want it to, especially when the way it's working has no reasonable justification.

That's especially true in this case, where there aren't a lot of us buyers and sellers in our little niche of the world and it wouldn't take too many of us to simply refuse to play by idiotic "policy" or "precedence" in order to change what is indisputably a sub-optimal and moronic way of buying and selling boats.

grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
courage to change the things I can,
and wisdom to know the difference.

Best of luck convincing the internet that the brokerage industry needs to bend to your will.

[SVHarmonie]

Geez... getting a yacht broker to call you back is not exactly the change I dream about forcing on the world, maybe because I don’t see the problem.

When we were in the market for our current boat, we contacted a broker who specialized in the brand. I wrote him a long email introducing ourselves, and describing exactly what we were looking for and what we expected to do with the boat. I listed the pluses and minuses of the listings he currently had online, and asked him to keep us in mind when something more to our taste and budget come up.

He politely acknowledged the email, and promised to be in touch.

Three weeks later, we get an email, “I have signed the listing contract on YOUR boat just an hour ago. I have no pictures yet, or anything else, just get here RIGHT AWAY or you’ll miss out.”

With more than a little trepidation, I flew 6000 miles the next day to see this boat. We put 10% down and signed the purchase contract the day after.

The broker did EXACTLY what he was supposed to do for me, and for the buyer. They wanted a quick sale, and agreed to a price that would support that. He knew he had qualified and interested buyers in the queue.

He contacted us because he knew the boat was exactly what we wanted and was within our budget. We had convinced him we were serious about buying. The boat was in perfect shape. Everybody was happy.

I am pretty sure this broker had gotten a lot of emails of 100 words or less asking about current listings that he ignored. MAYBE one of them was a serious buyer in disguise, but the odds are not in favor of that.

If You have done your research, and are pretty sure a specific listing is the boat you want to buy, if you write an email that reflects that level of interest, you’ll get an answer. If you ask “Is listing #3456785A still available?” Your chances of an answer are near zero.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by SVHarmonie

Geez... getting a yacht broker to call you back is not exactly the change I dream about forcing on the world, maybe because I don’t see the problem.

When we were in the market for our current boat, we contacted a broker who specialized in the brand. I wrote him a long email introducing ourselves, and describing exactly what we were looking for and what we expected to do with the boat. I listed the pluses and minuses of the listings he currently had online, and asked him to keep us in mind when something more to our taste and budget come up.

He politely acknowledged the email, and promised to be in touch.

Three weeks later, we get an email, “I have signed the listing contract on YOUR boat just an hour ago. I have no pictures yet, or anything else, just get here RIGHT AWAY or you’ll miss out.”

With more than a little trepidation, I flew 6000 miles the next day to see this boat. We put 10% down and signed the purchase contract the day after.

The broker did EXACTLY what he was supposed to do for me, and for the buyer. They wanted a quick sale, and agreed to a price that would support that. He knew he had qualified and interested buyers in the queue.

He contacted us because he knew the boat was exactly what we wanted and was within our budget. We had convinced him we were serious about buying. The boat was in perfect shape. Everybody was happy.

I am pretty sure this broker had gotten a lot of emails of 100 words or less asking about current listings that he ignored. MAYBE one of them was a serious buyer in disguise, but the odds are not in favor of that.

If You have done your research, and are pretty sure a specific listing is the boat you want to buy, if you write an email that reflects that level of interest, you’ll get an answer. If you ask “Is listing #3456785A still available?” Your chances of an answer are near zero.

You had a good experience. Perhaps your experience was anomalous, perhaps mine was although a quick search on the word "brokers" here says it wasn't. As I said, I was a cash buyer who knew exactly the boat I wanted and ended up buying exactly that boat. During the 15 month process of buying that boat I ran into a half dozen brokers who didn't return emails or calls and a two who flaked out on me and didn't show up at the boat after I'd flown nearly 1000 miles specifically to look at them. That experience is representative of what many of us have experienced.

To say that those of us who have had these poor experiences shouldn't be advocating for yacht brokers to have the common human decency to stop doing the equivalent of turning their back on us and ignoring us when we walk up to them and try talk to them....that's just a baffling stand to decide to take? And to belittle that as something somehow unimportant and beneath you and not worthy of advocating to change....what's that all about?