Bareboat charter boat collision

[Bawlmer]

I can't help but think this company is similar to the cruise lines who build their entire business model around the ability to avoid liability. I think this will be a rough go. Best of luck.

[Moontide]

Not really sure why you are going after DYC first. Haven't read all the posts, but the operator of the boat is normally the one who is responsible for damages. Have you tried contacting the charterers?



I'm assuming it was operator error, not equipment failure that caused the dragging and damage. Did you file a police report with local authorities? If not, any recorded statements or video of the event and aftermath?



That being said, I got hit by a Moorings boat in next to the charter base in Tortola. They had me in a slip the next day and did very good fiberglass repairs. Got free slip (and water and elec) for 3 days while they were doing the repairs.



Turns out the boat had dropped a prop so they didn't charge the charterer for the damages.


I would definetly go after the operator. Let them put pressure on DYC if needed.

[bstreep]

Originally Posted by Moontide

Not really sure why you are going after DYC first. Haven't read all the posts, but the operator of the boat is normally the one who is responsible for damages. Have you tried contacting the charterers?

When one charters (with DYC and most others), one has a choice for insurance: Pay a daily rate, and effectively have $0 liability for anything. Or, put a mid-4 figure deposit down, that gets applied to any damage to the boat or other property. The charter company likely self-insures this part, like a rental car company does (they make a killing on insurance).

This means the gripe is with the charter company. The boat in question appears to be a US documented yacht. And the boat was in Puerto Rico, a US Territory.

My only point with "Mauritius", is that a company that has you sign a contract that requires litigation half way around the world, should have raised red flags for me about the kind of company I was dealing with. It didn't. My error. And I'm just trying to save folks from the same/similar ruined vacation. Well. And maybe to get back at them for ruining ours. https://dreamyachtcharterssuck.com/

[Moontide]

bstreep, as I read the OP the poster was the owner of the boat hit, not the charterer. As such who the charter contract has no bearing on him. He is not a party to that contract and has a tort claim against the operator/charterer of the boat and maybe against the owner or charter company.



In any case the contract with DYC has nothing to do with anything in this particular situation. For DYC's attorney to say sue us in a foreign country is disingenious at best, and outright fraudulent misrepresentation at worst, although attorneys seem to do that almost every day.

[bstreep]

Originally Posted by Moontide

bstreep, as I read the OP the poster was the owner of the boat hit, not the charterer. As such who the charter contract has no bearing on him. He is not a party to that contract and has a tort claim against the operator/charterer of the boat and maybe against the owner or charter company.



In any case the contract with DYC has nothing to do with anything in this particular situation. For DYC's attorney to say sue us in a foreign country is disingenious at best, and outright fraudulent misrepresentation at worst, although attorneys seem to do that almost every day.

The insurance goes with the boat, not with the "driver". We've chartered 16 or 17 times. In EVERY case, if I were to be at fault in a situation (and once, I was - the mooring pendant at the Bitter End broke underwater - still "my fault"), the damage I did or I do, is covered by the insurance policy I bought from the charter company. In EVERY case, no matter what policy I have from the charter company (and they require one), I'm covered at least to my deductible. Which they have in the form of a deposit.

The dispute is between the OP and Dream Yacht, who supplied the insurance.

[CdS2 Roland]

Hello,
Sorry about what happend to you. But, if damages occured during a hurricane, they will not pay. You will have to prove that their mooring was defect or not enough secure for normal conditions. With hurricane wind speed, only your own insurance can help you, if you have that coverage... In Europe a lot of insurance companies put this wind speed limit at 70Km/h. If over, the liability insurance from the boat that hit your boat will not pay, if it is normaly moored.

Good luck.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by diver14u

Thank you for all your helpful and informative responses. To respond from my side; there have been in excess of 20 emails sent and received between myself and Dream Yacht Charter senior management. The collision occurred in Culebra, Puerto Rico, which is part of the Spanish Virgin Islands and the US.

I will be pursuing the legal route and sending them a letter. I have also been informed that we could sue for the entire sale price of our boat as the buyers walked away.

This is the email received from the manager at their Fajardo base in PR.

Hey Shelley,

Sorry I’ve been super busy.
So let’s start this thread with laying out the facts.
On Friday oct 18 you were anchored in culebra near the public dock.
Bill Rutherford was chartering the vessel named Island Time and dufour 412 form DYC base at Farjardo.
I received an email from an agent at the DYC base in Florida satiating that Island Time was dragging anchor and has hit your vessel.
That same day I revived a few pictures from Bill Rutherford which were from a far distance.
Days later I came out to culebra to see the damage for myself. When I noticed a few small chips (smaller than a quarter) and one black scuff mark. One chip was already filled with epoxy which was not a new repair.
November 12th per your husband’s request I came back out to try to clean up the damaged area.
I used buffing compound to to get rid of the scuff marks and then cleaned and filled the chips with Pettit Gel coat repair epoxy.
Your husband stated that he would like to see a better fill job performed and agreed to meet me at Puerto Del Rey marina in a few days so the repairs would redone.
No show
December 10 I receive a call from you wanting the repairs completed but state that you have left my area.

Does this sound correct to you?

Now moving on where is the vessel located?

Thanks
Jesse
--
Jesse Campo
Dream Yacht PR Base Manager
Skype: jessecampo86@gmail.com

A survey was done at Nanny Cay Marina by a reputable surveyor and the water ingress was found.

I have already gone the Change.org route - Dream Yacht Charter refuses liability - David vs. Goliath.

I'm not suggesting they aren't giving you the run around but this doesn't sound like "The company admitted to the accident in full".

Without having seen the boat immediately before and after the accident, I have no idea what really happened to the boat but there is clearly some debate as to the extent of the damage.

From the email you provided, it sounds like they offered to fix some chips in the gelcoat and you didn't like the quality of the repair. Again without seeing it, I can't tell if they did a lousy job repairing it or if they did a decent job and you are just being picky. Also was there existing damage in the area, since he mentions some holes are already filled with epoxy (again sounds like there is debate regarding the actual damages).

I'm still trying to wrap my head around how a few chips in the gelcoat translates to water intrusion into the hull. Maybe that needs a little better description or some pictures.

Based on another DYC thread, you may be trying to get blood out of a turnip. They are withholding payments to owners for 6 months right now because they are running out of money. They may decide to ignore you simply because they may be bankrupt before there is ever a judgement.

Based on just the partial picture you provided, I would expect if you start threatening lawyers or PR campaigns, they will hunker down and wait you out.

[MagicBeans55]

Thank you..was just about to book a flotilla with Dream yacht ..My clients have decided to put 1 person more on each 15 boat and use moorings instead...We will do our best to spread the word

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by CdS2 Roland

Hello,
Sorry about what happend to you. But, if damages occured during a hurricane, they will not pay. You will have to prove that their mooring was defect or not enough secure for normal conditions. With hurricane wind speed, only your own insurance can help you, if you have that coverage... In Europe a lot of insurance companies put this wind speed limit at 70Km/h. If over, the liability insurance from the boat that hit your boat will not pay, if it is normaly moored.

Good luck.

Please read the thread. The boat was at anchor, not a mooring (unless you're generically referring to all anchored boats as 'moorings') and there was not a hurricane involved.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

You don't say in what country this occurred, but I'd take my complaint to the local port authorities, whoever they may be, and ask them what sanctions could be placed on the boat and/or the company. Could be you could get a lien on the vessel, or prevent the vessel from sailing again until resolved, or.... It will likely be an uphill battle as the charter company is probably a "good customer" and generates revenue, but worth at least asking and doesn't take a lawyer.

From experience, it is highly unlikely you will get help from the local country authorities.

We were struck in Bonaire while on a mooring and not aboard by a single hander. Our kind boat neighbors forced him to give up his insurance information before he skipped to Cartagena. It took seven months to finally resolve but we were paid. I did most of the work myself. If you do this, make sure the agent allows a fair rate for your work and be able to compare this lower fee to a real estimate.

[flee27]

It is unfortunate this happened and you are having to deal with it. I am also not commenting about you specific incident or treatment. But regarding the general comments about DYC I have had a different experience (thankfully) and feel it should be shared also.

We chartered a catamaran out of Fajardo with DYC under the same base management. We had quite a few problems with the boat that negatively effected our charter expectations. Thankfully it was nothing mission critical just all the "extras" that didn't work. Anyway the base manager(s) did a fair enough job handling the issues. After the charter I contacted DYC requesting a partial refund/credit. It did take multiple emails going back and fourth and some stern conversations defending my side. But in the end we came to a reasonable value and overall for the circumstances of the situation it did not leave me with a bad impression of DYC. I feel like I was treated fairly even though it did take some effort to get it resolved.

Saying this I hope your situation works out fairly for you also.

Foster

[sailingharry]

The problem here is the question of responsibility. If they put down a 1 lb anchor, and left the boat for a week, you might be able to claim gross negligence. But if they put down a anchor that is anything close to reasonable, put out anything close to reasonable scope, and didn't totally screw up, it is considered a act of God, and there is no liability on the dragging boat.

It is very similar to a tree blowing down from your property onto a neighbor's house, where their insurance pays not yours. You would only be liable if the tree was dead, had been dead for years, and was visibly rotted.

A friend of mine had a boat that broke three out of four morning lines and slammed into a neighbor's boat in a storm. He was upset that his insurance would not cover the neighbor's boat. It just doesn't. The neighbors insurance paid.

The problem comes down to reasonable and negligence. You have to prove to a very high standard that the fault was negligence. Not simply that they drug, not simply that four to one scope is not as good as eight to one, not simply that they were ashore when the storm came through, but much worse than any other boat in the Anchorage and much worse than any reasonable sailor would have done. and by reasonable, I am not talking about world traveling bluewater cruisers, but the average sailor.

[Lihuedooley77]

There seems to be other reported problems with DYC and their bare boat charter vessels.

We have been bare boating with just the two of, up to several people, to leading flotillas, world wide with the Moorings, Sunsail, and now Conch Charters, and a couple of smaller charter outfits. The year we began our first BVI bare boating was 1983 with the Moorings out of Tortola , BVI.
.
As to putting factual information out, printed, or email, that is true, just how is DYC gong to sue for liable. Stand up, and let the world know the facts. Do do be absolutely factual.

You have received some very excellent suggestions, thanks to those posters.

In bare boat chartering and Sailing Australia, Tahiti, Tonga...Abacos, Bahama, British Virgin Islands, French West Indies, Windwards and Grenadines, and a motor vessel in Ireland...... never had a collision, or grounding or damage...but, we have had problems of other neighbor vessels dragging, and totally unskilled catamaran operators when trying to pick up a mooring, radically using huge amounts of power, and no clue. We, dropped off and left the area. Actually, two other vessels dropped off and followed us out of the small harbor.

Not sure if you will ever be compensated, but personally , we would not let this incident rule our lives. Some ya win, some ya lose , and some are rained out.
It is not healthy to be living with negativism on a constant basis. The other guy is actually winning and you are blessed with ulcers and a dark cloud over head.

Our attitude... there is insurance with the bare boat charter, why they do not just take care of it, fix it and be done.

As to the misrepresentation of the super premium DYC vessel, by another poster that is a whole other event.

On the horizon...

Enjoy your sailing experiences and adventures, new friends, and keep life positive. Move forward.

[bstreep]

Originally Posted by flee27

It is unfortunate this happened and you are having to deal with it. I am also not commenting about you specific incident or treatment. But regarding the general comments about DYC I have had a different experience (thankfully) and feel it should be shared also.

We chartered a catamaran out of Fajardo with DYC under the same base management. We had quite a few problems with the boat that negatively effected our charter expectations. Thankfully it was nothing mission critical just all the "extras" that didn't work. Anyway the base manager(s) did a fair enough job handling the issues. After the charter I contacted DYC requesting a partial refund/credit. It did take multiple emails going back and fourth and some stern conversations defending my side. But in the end we came to a reasonable value and overall for the circumstances of the situation it did not leave me with a bad impression of DYC. I feel like I was treated fairly even though it did take some effort to get it resolved.

Saying this I hope your situation works out fairly for you also.

Foster

I just read this to my wife. We both laughed. See, one of DYC's rules is that if they come to a settlement agreement with you, you agree that you won't post negative reviews. Folks, this is how you post a negative review, without posting a negative review! Well done.

[redneckrob]

Not sure why, after the OP mentioned it several times, everyone still seems unaware this happened in the United States and therefore the OP has full access to the US legal system and US officials. A company with whome you have no relationship who damages your property in the United States doesn't get to force you to settle in another country, or be relieved of liability because there was a hurricane, or most of the other pretty poor advice provided. This is no different from a UPS truck hitting your car in Topeka. You nicely ask them to pay to repair it, if they don't do so you hire an attorney and start a negative PR campaign. Neither will have "negative consequences" for you as a completely unrelated third party.