Aussie Legal Hurdles (RTW) ???

[Wanderlust]

Lord Howe Island is over 300nm from the nearest point on the mainland but Australians don't need a passport. I couldn't find any info on whether crusing boat requirements were different from air travellers.

My daughter is on a P&O Comedy Cruiise leaving Sydney today. It goes outside the 12 mile limit for 3 nights, makes no stops, and then returns. Duty free and casino are in operation, so it's oustide Australia. No passport required.

There are many islands outside the 12 mile limit. So, despite the wording about needing a passport to leave Australian waters, that clearly isn't the case.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Wanderlust

Lord Howe Island is over 300nm from the nearest point on the mainland but Australians don't need a passport. I couldn't find any info on whether crusing boat requirements were different from air travellers.

My daughter is on a P&O Comedy Cruiise leaving Sydney today. It goes outside the 12 mile limit for 3 nights, makes no stops, and then returns. Duty free and casino are in operation, so it's oustide Australia. No passport required.

There are many islands outside the 12 mile limit. So, despite the wording about needing a passport to leave Australian waters, that clearly isn't the case.

I may be wrong, but I have aspirations of sailing to Lord Howe, maybe next year. I think I recall that you need permission to sail there? And coincidentally, you don't need a passport to travel to Antartica on an Australian expedition, despite the fact you are clearly leaving Australia and arriving on foreign soil. I know that because some many years ago I was interested in in being involved in a stint of work down there, but didn't.

You need an Australian passport anytime DEFAT indicates you require a passport. They don't require you to advise popping outside the 12 mile limit during simple passages. It's that simple.

Going around the world on a non stop however, I think you will find they do require it. Though that would be a discussion with them and they can make that decison.

[undercutter]

Originally Posted by Wanderlust

Lord Howe Island is over 300nm from the nearest point on the mainland but Australians don't need a passport. I couldn't find any info on whether crusing boat requirements were different from air travellers.

My daughter is on a P&O Comedy Cruiise leaving Sydney today. It goes outside the 12 mile limit for 3 nights, makes no stops, and then returns. Duty free and casino are in operation, so it's oustide Australia. No passport required.

There are many islands outside the 12 mile limit. So, despite the wording about needing a passport to leave Australian waters, that clearly isn't the case.

You don't need a passport to leave or arrive in Australia as long as you can prove you are an Australian citizen they cannot refuse to let you in. I find it strange that you need to clear customs to depart Australian waters as an Australian as I know that this is not required in Canada or even the US either.

The only trouble I could see Chris getting into was if he in fact sailed into Foreign waters or visited a foreign country where he would in fact get into lot's of trouble if he did not have a port clearance from his last port except of course for the US and Canada where such documents have to be specially requested and are not required for arriving vessels. Of course sailing around in International waters without being registered in some country would make him a pirate

[hellosailor]

Not to forget, some countries require a foreigner to have a passport so they have some idea of who that person might really be.


But pretty much every country requires a passport to prove that you ARE in fact a returning citizen, not some foreigner trying to sneak back in. No passport? Sure, just sit in this little holding cell until we can find good proof that you really are returning home.

[El Pinguino]

You have to walk the walk and talk the talk to be a pirate....

They can't deny entry to you if you are Australian.... ok .. but you have no passport ... some handsome young bloke has moved in with your missus and she declares she has never seen you before... she has also emptied your joint bank accounts and closed them....hmmm not looking good....
Declared stateless you are on your way to Christmas Island to join all the naughty kiwis...

And you will probably have to import your boat

[stillbuilding]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

You are more than 12.05 miles offshore when sailing from TI to Darwin and when sailing from Port Phillip to Devonport..... just saying

Some may remember the Van Gogh incident in 1968....

Nope - more detail please.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forums lily hhrn

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by stillbuilding

Nope - more detail please.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forums lily hhrn

A bit off topic but..

In 1968 Van Gogh ,a big Russian factory ship, turned up in the middle of the Gulf of Carpentaria and started catching prawns..... local prawners very agitated.... but nothing they could do as back then was 100% international waters.. unlike now.

That revelation came as a shock to many...

[Capt Phil]

Nicholson58 took the words right out of my computer on post 36. Having delivered boats in and out of over 20 countries around the world, if you show up without vessel documentation or a passport, you will learn how intimate jail can be! If you are unfortunate enough to lose your boat and your own documentation, you will be considered a refugee and treated accordingly. Attempting to contact friends or family from this type of situation is nigh impossible. Boatman61 can probably shed more light on this as he has done deliveries into and out of some strange places! Phil

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

A bit off topic but..

In 1968 Van Gogh ,a big Russian factory ship, turned up in the middle of the Gulf of Carpentaria and started catching prawns..... local prawners very agitated.... but nothing they could do as back then was 100% international waters.. unlike now.

That revelation came as a shock to many...

No Cookies | The Courier-Mail

[RaymondR]

If outside Australia is 12.06 miles from the base line then there are an awful lot of us who regularly break the law.

[Wanderlust]

Originally Posted by Capt Phil

..... if you show up without vessel documentation or a passport, you will learn how intimate jail can be! ....

No question there. But for the sake of this hypothetical, that would not be an issue if you did not enter their territorial waters ... or rather it SHOULD NOT be an issue. In practice it may be different.

But it appears from the passport viewpoint, Australian authorities say you can go outside the 12 mile limit and come back without passport or customs clearance. If 300nm offshore to Lord Howe Island is OK, then there does not seem to be a practical limit. The island website does say it has customs and clearance facilities for foreign vessels.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

If outside Australia is 12.06 miles from the base line then there are an awful lot of us who regularly break the law.

Can you read the thread!

No one has suggested you break the law everytime you sail outside the 12 mile territorial zone..

[Tientos]

There will always be those who should never go to sea!

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

………….
'A place outside Australia' is immediately at 12.05 miles from shore.. This is not Dr Who where you go into a third dimension. You can't leave Australia and not be somewhere.. And you certainly can't sail around the world and not be leaving Australia to do it..

Within an Act, the heading is part of the legislation. In this part, the intention of the legislators is very clear and they have written it into the specific section, 'unregistered ships not to leave Australia'.. boom, fine up to $2000.. though probably be less than $500 for this type of thing.
……..

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

( I'm still playing )

Not that I can see, but given our 'waters to which we have sovereign' are to 12 miles, which seems to be what the Quarantine Act refers to then, I'd suggest rather than there being a 'definition' the courts simply take note of it.. But not really sure on that one.

But regardless, the courts do use common understanding in determining things that are common, and thus I think the court would consider that 'leaving Australia' is when you leave the lands that are sovereign to Australia.. And that's 12 miles. And yes, 12 miles of ocean in included in Australia's lands. I'm surmising all of this. I don't really know.

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

Can you read the thread!

No one has suggested you break the law everytime you sail outside the 12 mile territorial zone..

With great respect RC, I think you might have suggested that one is breaking the law…
Unless of course, I have misunderstood what you posted!

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

That's why he changed his name to Madé. He is really from Indonesia.:what:

Got it