Advice from wiser minds

[Steelhands]

The poster said, " Not enough risk to life or limb currently I guess. I live in Seattle."

Buy my Haida 26 in Sequim WA. Race the R2AK, (RACE TO ALASKA). That will be all the adventure most folks need. I'd help you get started. You could live at the marina while getting in shape for the race. A Haida raced in 2017. You'd get a tremendous amount of salt under your keel on that race. 750 nautical miles with no motor. Uphill.

[Kerryf]

Whatever about the boat....if you are a commercial diver you will never be without work in the harbors around the world. Take a small compressor with you and have a sign on your dodger (or flag) advertising diving services, you'll be set! Good luck.

[GrowleyMonster]

Oh no, don't do the wooden gaff schooner for your first boat, expecially with no experienced crew aboard! It's not just harder. Some things that are possible with a 26 to 32 foot sloop are not, with a 40' gafftopper. And the cost goes up astronomically. Your slip lease for a 40' boat will more than double a 30 footer. Bigger rope and a lot more of it, for your running rigging. Bigger wire and a lot more of it, a LOT more of it, for your standing rigging which WILL need replacing, trust me. Much bigger sails to buy or replace. Much higher yard bills for routine haulouts, etc. A much bigger diesel, much bigger repair and overhaul costs, and higher fuel costs. More expensive insurance, especially for a wood boat. So less flexibility, more difficult operation, and way higher cost. And what do you get for having a bigger boat? Not much, if you are singlehanding. You get more room, but you don't need it. You get another knot or two of top speed, but you don't need it. You get bragging rights. Until you wake up one morning at anchor and right next to you is a 130' staysail schooner with a crew of 14 and weight of brass more than your displacement.



For your first boat, do consider a 70's built mass produced fiberglass sloop with a running diesel, somewhere between 26 and 32 feet. First, get all the legalities taken care of and get a slip. Fix it up, live aboard. Learn bit by bit how to fix all the stuff that breaks, wears, or ages out. Once you can comfortably eat, sleep, shower, crap, and move the boat to the pumpout station and back, start looking to get her ready for some sailing and motoring. Do some day sails. Then do some overnights. Make your mistake on a $4k boat and not a big expensive and rare dinosaur. When you are finished with school, head south. Hang out in Mexico for a while. Feel courageous? Go to Hawaii. Don't like Hawaii? Head back to PNW. Don't try to sail from Cabo to PNW. It can be very frustrating. Going south is easy. Instead of going north, many cruisers from your area go home via Hawaii.



You can learn to actually sail the boat in a day. Seriously. Especially a Bermuda rig sloop. Not the finer points, but how to make the boat go pretty much wherever you want, eventually. What will take longer because it must be learned perfectly, is Rules of the Road. Serious business. Failure to follow the rules can result in collisions, sinkings, injuries, fatalities and all sorts of legal and civil penalties. My pet peeve, guys on the water who do not know the Rules. Then there is piloting and navigation. Sometimes, some places, piloting is dead simple. Sometimes not. Do you leave that bouy to port, or starboard? Where is the deep water in that channel bend? How do I shoot that entrance without becoming a USCG rescue poster child? When you are out of sight of land and all bouys, daymarks, and the like, is when navigation takes over. If you think for one minute that turning on an electronic chart plotter makes you a navigator and that you are operating as a prudent and responsible mariner, you are mistaken. So you have a lot on your plate, for your nautical education, and simply sailing the boat is the tiniest iota of it all. Oh yeah, and damage control. First aid. Repairs, maintenance, inspection. Buying a cheap bulletproof fiberglass sloop gives you a learning platform for much of it. A place to store all your books, for the rest of it.



Oh, I forgot about weather observing and forecasting. Communications. Provisioning and stowage. Heavy weather sailing. Anchoring. Well, lots of stuff. Don't be the guy who doesn't know crap. Be the guy that is solidly grounded in the nautical arts and sciences who knows just what page of Bowditch or Chapman's or Calder to turn to, when facing an unusual problem.

[double u]

GOLD, PURE GOLD!!!!

[JBP]

Originally Posted by MuffinMan

I always hated buy beginner or entry things since i learn fast and it usually doesnt end up saving me money.

Don't think of it as a beginner boat, it's a temporary apartment with sailing benefits. Sure you won't make money by buying and later selling it, but you won't lose much if it's a popular model, and you won't have to pay for that apartment so you will save money.

[Mrfish]

I didn't read everything else that our fellow sailors might have said, who has that much time.


But my two cents, don't buy a gaff- rigged boat, especially if you are thinking about solo sailing or short handed sailing.


Don't buy a wooden boat, god invented plastic for a reason.


Thirdly, if you want to get some sailing experience and make some good friends at the same time, join the local Meetup group called Pacific Northwest Sailing Group and The Puget Sound Sailing Group.


Smooth Seas,


Mr Fish

[Lepke]

Also former navy but my sailing days are over. Joint damage from the military makes excessive line handling difficult. So I live and cruise PNW on a 83' powerboat. Mostly solo. My boat's wood, but I'm a shipwright.

I've always had big boats, first was 65'. But I had experience. Bigger boat is more comfortable as a liveaboard and allows more amenities. I don't consider 40' big.

I wouldn't start with a wood boat and a gaff rig. Become a competent sailor with something with an easier and simpler sail plan. Forget, for now, the expense of wood boat repair, shipping across the US, or delivering from thousands of miles away. Years ago I sailed from Maine, thru the canal, and on to Hawaii. It was a long trip. Many months. Dodged a hurricane, got dysentery from a marina water supply, caught the clap in Acapulco. Musta been bad water there, too.

[Luckyknot]

Originally Posted by Lepke

...Dodged a hurricane, got dysentery from a marina water supply, caught the clap in Acapulco. Musta been bad water there, too.

LMAO Been there...

[roland stockham]

Originally Posted by Mrfish

I didn't read everything else that our fellow sailors might have said, who has that much time.


But my two cents, don't buy a gaff- rigged boat, especially if you are thinking about solo sailing or short handed sailing.


Solo sailing is much more about how you set the boat up than rig types. One of my friends back in wales had a 50ft Bristol Channel Pilot Cutter that he regularly soloed around the Celtic sea and the standard crew for east coast sailing barges (cutter rig & spritsail) up to 80ft was 'a man and a boy'



Don't buy a wooden boat, god invented plastic for a reason.

Man invented GRP because it made boats cheaper. No other reason. As far as I know the only boat God designed was the ark and it definitely was not GRP!



Thirdly, if you want to get some sailing experience and make some good friends at the same time, join the local Meetup group called Pacific Northwest Sailing Group and The Puget Sound Sailing Group.


Thanks for the tip I will look that group up


Smooth Seas,


Mr Fish

.................................................. .................................................. .....

[Hardhead]

Originally Posted by Kerryf

Whatever about the boat....if you are a commercial diver you will never be without work in the harbors around the world. Take a small compressor with you and have a sign on your dodger (or flag) advertising diving services, you'll be set! Good luck.

Man - that would be nice.

[thomm225]

This guy is mid 20's just out of the military.

The last thing he needs to do is buy a sailboat.

He is just now learning how to be a civilian again and be on his own without paid for medical insurance, a place to live, and direction in everything he does.

As I said before, you see this all the time here with all the military guys getting out.

I just hate to see them waste their money because no young unmarried man wants to be stuck living on a sailboat unless he has a clear plan to cruise and has some experience

[Jim Cate]

Use the savings to charter.

IMO, bad advice... if the aim is to own and cruise on one's own boat, chartering will slow the process, perhaps to a standstill.

Rather, invest the savings and keep adding to them, that's how you build some wealth and get to buy your cruising boat.

Jim

[MuffinMan]

Originally Posted by thomm225

This guy is mid 20's just out of the military.

The last thing he needs to do is buy a sailboat.

He is just now learning how to be a civilian again and be on his own without paid for medical insurance, a place to live, and direction in everything he does.

As I said before, you see this all the time here with all the military guys getting out.

I just hate to see them waste their money because no young unmarried man wants to be stuck living on a sailboat unless he has a clear plan to cruise and has some experience

I would agree with you in the case of most sailors. But every one thinks they are the exception and I'm no exception. I've been out for a couple years now. I know full well how to have a job and insurance and an apt. I am doing this because of who I am as a person, and while the navy has had some influence on who I am, very little of this is related to my time in. I've always been an independant and distant person, even as a child. I don't have a boat so I go backcountry hiking alone, which is also great in PNW. I don't have anything against people and I'm not anti social. Its just not something I need either. I'll be happy to interact in port and Ill be happy to have the solitude of the sea. I want to go live on a boat precisely because I am young and unmarried. I'd rather spend my youth sinking all my money into a pit of a boat just to get to the next port. This certainly is about learning. However its about learning about me. Having spent my entire life on military bases, as a child and an adult, I got out thinking I didnt like the military life. Then I became a civilian and I found I quite liked my life in the navy and I dont like being a civilian much. Just a different type of person. I will settle on a career, inside or outside the military, but first I'm gonna take my youth, freedom, and lack of ties to go around the world and decide who I want to be at the end.

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

Oh no, don't do the wooden gaff schooner for your first boat, expecially with no experienced crew aboard! It's not just harder. Some things that are possible with a 26 to 32 foot sloop are not, with a 40' gafftopper. And the cost goes up astronomically. Your slip lease for a 40' boat will more than double a 30 footer. Bigger rope and a lot more of it, for your running rigging. Bigger wire and a lot more of it, a LOT more of it, for your standing rigging which WILL need replacing, trust me. Much bigger sails to buy or replace. Much higher yard bills for routine haulouts, etc. A much bigger diesel, much bigger repair and overhaul costs, and higher fuel costs. More expensive insurance, especially for a wood boat. So less flexibility, more difficult operation, and way higher cost. And what do you get for having a bigger boat? Not much, if you are singlehanding. You get more room, but you don't need it. You get another knot or two of top speed, but you don't need it. You get bragging rights. Until you wake up one morning at anchor and right next to you is a 130' staysail schooner with a crew of 14 and weight of brass more than your displacement.



For your first boat, do consider a 70's built mass produced fiberglass sloop with a running diesel, somewhere between 26 and 32 feet. First, get all the legalities taken care of and get a slip. Fix it up, live aboard. Learn bit by bit how to fix all the stuff that breaks, wears, or ages out. Once you can comfortably eat, sleep, shower, crap, and move the boat to the pumpout station and back, start looking to get her ready for some sailing and motoring. Do some day sails. Then do some overnights. Make your mistake on a $4k boat and not a big expensive and rare dinosaur. When you are finished with school, head south. Hang out in Mexico for a while. Feel courageous? Go to Hawaii. Don't like Hawaii? Head back to PNW. Don't try to sail from Cabo to PNW. It can be very frustrating. Going south is easy. Instead of going north, many cruisers from your area go home via Hawaii.



You can learn to actually sail the boat in a day. Seriously. Especially a Bermuda rig sloop. Not the finer points, but how to make the boat go pretty much wherever you want, eventually. What will take longer because it must be learned perfectly, is Rules of the Road. Serious business. Failure to follow the rules can result in collisions, sinkings, injuries, fatalities and all sorts of legal and civil penalties. My pet peeve, guys on the water who do not know the Rules. Then there is piloting and navigation. Sometimes, some places, piloting is dead simple. Sometimes not. Do you leave that bouy to port, or starboard? Where is the deep water in that channel bend? How do I shoot that entrance without becoming a USCG rescue poster child? When you are out of sight of land and all bouys, daymarks, and the like, is when navigation takes over. If you think for one minute that turning on an electronic chart plotter makes you a navigator and that you are operating as a prudent and responsible mariner, you are mistaken. So you have a lot on your plate, for your nautical education, and simply sailing the boat is the tiniest iota of it all. Oh yeah, and damage control. First aid. Repairs, maintenance, inspection. Buying a cheap bulletproof fiberglass sloop gives you a learning platform for much of it. A place to store all your books, for the rest of it.



Oh, I forgot about weather observing and forecasting. Communications. Provisioning and stowage. Heavy weather sailing. Anchoring. Well, lots of stuff. Don't be the guy who doesn't know crap. Be the guy that is solidly grounded in the nautical arts and sciences who knows just what page of Bowditch or Chapman's or Calder to turn to, when facing an unusual problem.

Great post. There is a lot to learn and I am aware of it. I have plan to get involved in the local sailing community and learn all I can with experienced people for sure. The gaff Schooner is the dream but by no means am I limiting myself. I am looking at all the boats in the area and some outside the area. You all have been really helpful. Shipping a boat is out of the picture. However after thinking about it I'm perfectly willing to move to a boat somewhere else. Being around home would be convient but its not necessary.

Going down to MX and around to HI is the escalation plan for staying on the west coast. Get my bearings locally. Start pushing a bit down the coast once Ive got a better grasp of things and then across to HI when I'm ready for a bigger trip.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by MuffinMan

I would agree with you in the case of most sailors. But every one thinks they are the exception and I'm no exception. I've been out for a couple years now. I know full well how to have a job and insurance and an apt. I am doing this because of who I am as a person, and while the navy has had some influence on who I am, very little of this is related to my time in. I've always been an independant and distant person, even as a child. I don't have a boat so I go backcountry hiking alone, which is also great in PNW. I don't have anything against people and I'm not anti social. Its just not something I need either. I'll be happy to interact in port and Ill be happy to have the solitude of the sea. I want to go live on a boat precisely because I am young and unmarried. I'd rather spend my youth sinking all my money into a pit of a boat just to get to the next port. This certainly is about learning. However its about learning about me. Having spent my entire life on military bases, as a child and an adult, I got out thinking I didnt like the military life. Then I became a civilian and I found I quite liked my life in the navy and I dont like being a civilian much. Just a different type of person. I will settle on a career, inside or outside the military, but first I'm gonna take my youth, freedom, and lack of ties to go around the world and decide who I want to be at the end.

Well if you feel you must do this I'd go with a smaller boat capable of blue water cruising at first anyway

These boats can be had anywhere from $4,000 and up. Here's a list of some of them and some good advice also from a guy that has circumnavigated twice on a 28' boat that he still has.

https://atomvoyages.com/planning/goo...oats-list.html

If you think you will mainly be a liveaboard sailing little and still working go larger, but if planning to sail as much as possible and work along the way 26' - 32' may well work.

Folks have circumnavigated on Contessa 26's for example.

I love being on the water also but when I was in (Marines) I spent most of my 6 years inland. When I was discharged, I was in Yuma, AZ.

Not a lot of sailing happening there or any type boating. Soon as I got home (back here) I bought a 16' Whirlwind with a 40 Johnson for $435.00 (my 5th boat) and used it all summer before moving to Tennessee for a job related to what I had learned while in the marines (ATC Radar/IFF Tech)

I ended up buying a Hobie 16 and learning sailing there after a few years before being transferred to Pensacola, FL (beach cat sailing heaven at the time mid 1990's!). I bought a second newer Hobie 16 while still in Tennessee and then two new Nacra's for racing while in Pensacola

I sailed a lot in and around Pensacola (Biloxi, Mississippi - Panama City, FL) for about 12 years then got into cycling before moving back up here and buying an old cruising boat which I plan to use to cruise in a few years.

I'm only mid 60's now so it's too early to retire. I sail it all the time here though during the season cruising up and down the bay and in the ocean.

I've had it for 8 years and paid $2,000 for it. I've probably put another $10,000 into it over those years with upgrades and maintenance

This is a pretty good site about young people sailing/cruising with very little money. Most were inspired by the second video which I'll post. Btw, the guy in the second video got enough of sailing and became huge in software/cyber. You can look it up.

http://www.dinghydreams.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lwbHYOFD-4

[NormanMartin]

An interesting OP and thread. As a lifelong sailing instructor, sailor, and ardent student of this very subject, I opine:
Read: There sure are a lot of books that helps one understand voyaging which is less about sailing than adventure and common sense. If you start with the Pardy books you will be off to a good start.
Sailing school: These offer a lot of variety of experiences and exposure to a wide assortment of sailors who are both students and instructors.

Finally: Not everyone succeeds so be willing to cash out. I have had students tell me the best thing about sailing school is that they learned sailing away is not for them. A fellow named Glenn D Amato wrote a book, Breaking Seas that addresses the subject.

Keep well!
Norm