Advice from wiser minds

[MuffinMan]

Originally Posted by Larry Miranda

Hi MuffinMan I am in Portugal and have been searching for a boat and stumbled on this ad.
https://classicboats.apolloduck.com/...0-sloop/622893


Not sure if it suits you but if adventure is what you are after try contacting this guy in Italy seems like he has a loved boat that he wants to sell at a good price to a younger sailor to keep on loving it.
It has been with them 35 years I am sure you could work out a deal to store it until you finished school. Then jump right in new language, country everything then try and get back with the boat!
Learn in the Med for a year or so then if you love the life and that one is too small upgrade buy a boat in Malta, Turkey or somewhere giving good deals on the dream boat. With all your skills you would get work easy along the way.



Ok maybe not wiser but an option to consider...adventure right?

This is a great idea. Even with this boat aside. Whats the market like in the Med? Honestly even though I want to go everywhere the Med is what I'm most excited for. The places and the history in the Med is amazing and I would love to see so many of the things on offer there. I speak spanish and I took arabic in college so I could probably do well enough communicating. I suppose the only stopper to doing this are the same reasons I had to not jump to the east coast, not that a major jump is rules out. One of the silver linings of growing up a military child and being in myself is I have a lifetime of experience picking up everything and moving somewhere new to live every 3 or so years. Its probably part of why I want to leave Seattle already and why I want to do it by boat. At 2 years here I've already been here for a while by my standards and even if all I did was move who knows how long itll be before I get restless again.

[thomm225]

The thing I've noticed about folks with larger boats is that they don't sail them much especially when single handing

Whereas those of us that singlehand boats for 25' - 30' are out most every weekend and some week nights.

Also learning on a smaller boat you get a better feel for what happens when you pull a string (line) which is why it's probably best to start with something very light but heavy on sail from maybe 14' - 20'

[thomm225]

Here's an example of a good small boat but keep in mind these Contessa 26's are very small boats indeed.

This guy looks like he has built a structure on his so that he can stand up inside and still see ahead

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYOuJP0VagA

Contessa 26 crosses the Atlantic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuFK-uzwjRU

[Larry Miranda]

Originally Posted by MuffinMan

This is a great idea. Even with this boat aside. Whats the market like in the Med? Honestly even though I want to go everywhere the Med is what I'm most excited for. The places and the history in the Med is amazing and I would love to see so many of the things on offer there. I speak spanish and I took arabic in college so I could probably do well enough communicating. I suppose the only stopper to doing this are the same reasons I had to not jump to the east coast, not that a major jump is rules out. One of the silver linings of growing up a military child and being in myself is I have a lifetime of experience picking up everything and moving somewhere new to live every 3 or so years. Its probably part of why I want to leave Seattle already and why I want to do it by boat. At 2 years here I've already been here for a while by my standards and even if all I did was move who knows how long itll be before I get restless again.

You never really mentioned how much you are looking to spend but there are many boats in the med and the EU the prices vary dramatically. If you are thinking of starting a company to get a bigger boat probably easier to do that in the states unless you are an EU citizen( by blood works too in some countries I am Irish because of my Parents and Grandparents. In Ireland blood lines to the grandparents makes you a citizen. Even if your Parents were not born there. I was born in Canada. I am Dual now!


I understand why people are saying stay smaller because of many reasons, less to care for, easier to stay places, cheaper to run, cheaper to buy etc. I see many very cool boats large gaff rigged and schooners prices again vary I am by no means an expert but some in the 50,000 seem in good order but you see others in the 20,000 area. That is specific to your original idea but like Thom225 is showing there are many boats in the 26-35 that are in good ranges from 5,000-15,000 will get you a sweet boat in my opinion.
The boat I showed you is in that range but price is low! that is probably a boat you could move into when you landed. saving any hotel or apartment rental immediately cutting your costs. Hire a skipper or make a deal with someone who is mile building get them to come aboard when you settle in.
Point is if you by a boat that is sailing ready why not just get in and go!



https://classicboats.apolloduck.com/


https://yachts.apolloduck.com/ try a quick search on apolloduck


think of it as a learning vacation except you actually have an asset at the end/ 5,000-10,000 euros is nothing for multiple months/years accommodation on vacations. nowadays. Don't look at it as a loss but as an investment in knowledge.

Personally I would go to the med first because your family is in Seattle you will be doing the PNW and up that coast for sure many times over tour life. It is not just the med but Adriatic sea, the black sea, up the Danube so on...
Also going up North to the UK, Ireland Scotland. to the nordic areas, Baltics etc or going south of Africa out to the Azores Madiera, Canaries. Many 3 year periods in all those!



same as the NA south winter north summer


If you are doing most of the repairs and maintenance costs will be much lower. and as little time as possible paying slip fees.

[double u]

“... I have a good job that pays enough and I get money from the VA for going to college. ...only a car loan and some 5k-ish in misc debt.”

I don’t quite understand. Despite the good job you have not only no savings but “misc debts”? ANY boat is hugely expensive, purchase & follow up costs (particularly traditionally built wooden schooners). If you have not managed to save any money now, how is the “cash flow” going to happen once you own a boat? Or maybe I missed something?

[double u]

“...up the Danube...” ???
I am from Vienna...& it probably has been done by a well motorized sailboat...downstream is not rare, but UP???

[Larry Miranda]

Originally Posted by double u

“...up the Danube...” ???
I am from Vienna...& it probably has been done by a well motorized sailboat...downstream is not rare, but UP???

Hold up, I thought I was the Jackass!
U see a male Donkey is called a Jack and the Latin is asinus
but I am sure u knew that

so...up to...not the point I was making

[double u]

In another thread I recommended the following to the wooden-boat-for-cruising deliberator:
Before saddling myself with the (very considerable, quantity & quality wise!) maintenance of a traditionally built wooden boat I would build myself a little lapstrake skiff, say 8' long, traditional construction, copper riveted with steambent frames. That will tell you if you like the work & if your skill level i sufficient.
Not a surefire method, as some maintenancework can be considerably more difficult than the lapstrake build & much less satisfying, but it should give you an idea.
& btw: stich & glue does not count..

[laika]

Could you finish your degree and start saving up while living aboard from a local dock? Cheap rent, learn boats, finish school, make some money, build up the dream all at once?

Or, as others have suggested, maybe start with the likes of a little wooden sailing dory. Expedition dinghies = beach camp and hang out in places the bigger boats can't linger.

[MuffinMan]

Originally Posted by double u

“... I have a good job that pays enough and I get money from the VA for going to college. ...only a car loan and some 5k-ish in misc debt.”

I don’t quite understand. Despite the good job you have not only no savings but “misc debts”? ANY boat is hugely expensive, purchase & follow up costs (particularly traditionally built wooden schooners). If you have not managed to save any money now, how is the “cash flow” going to happen once you own a boat? Or maybe I missed something?

I don't have any real amount of saving and some misc debt because like many young sailors I was irresponsible with my money while I was in. Now being in a position of greater knowledge and income I have cleaned most of it up with only this little bit remaining which I will have destroyed in 3 months.

The question of cash flow. Money is the age-old problem in doing anything. To that, I say, I'm 26, not 66. This isn't retirement and its not a vacation. This is a lifestyle change because I don't like the one I'm living now. I have a lot of life ahead of me (I hope) and I'm not going to save an amount of money that'll set me up for any great portion of my life. At best I'll have a decent emergency fund, which I do plan to have, but I will need to work. I have plenty of hard skills to offer, especially ones that could be useful around boats and marinas like being a professional diver (with the required international certs to go along) and also I'm very well trained on the Navy's version of medicine which a few other acquired certs will allow me to ply. Also My degree will be in Digital Marketing. I'm down with the youngins and their fancy technology and confident I can make money online remotely. Even the company I work for now has remote positions. And this may be counting some eggs before there's a chicken for them, but I think star link will some only make this even easier. Maintenance aside one man and his boat shouldn't be that expensive a lifestyle. I'm confident I can keep up with the money angle since I am not on any kind of timeline or anything. I'm not setting off on a three-year trip or something. I'm just going to live on a boat. And when I'm tired of one place if the means are there I will move my boat elsewhere.

Originally Posted by double u

In another thread I recommended the following to the wooden-boat-for-cruising deliberator:
Before saddling myself with the (very considerable, quantity & quality wise!) maintenance of a traditionally built wooden boat I would build myself a little lapstrake skiff, say 8' long, traditional construction, copper riveted with steambent frames. That will tell you if you like the work & if your skill level i sufficient.
Not a surefire method, as some maintenancework can be considerably more difficult than the lapstrake build & much less satisfying, but it should give you an idea.
& btw: stich & glue does not count..

This is a good idea. I have seen ads for some workshops in the Seattle area where you can do just that. I will have to look and sign up for one. I agree this would be an excellent little test but also a fun project. I do want to say though I've grown up around tools, building and fabricating all my life. My Dad doesn't believe in buying cheap things so he buys really good tools and builds whatever he can himself and I've learned to do the same. While more of a jack of all I know how do passable woodwork, weld above and below water, plan and fabricate. You better believe that when I decided on the boat life the first thing I thought was "I'm gonna build it!".

Originally Posted by laika

Could you finish your degree and start saving up while living aboard from a local dock? Cheap rent, learn boats, finish school, make some money, build up the dream all at once?

That is exactly the plan. The posts on earlier pages about staying in Seattle or moving to the east coast was about this plan exactly. I planned to buy a boat so I can shed this crazy expensive apt. I would live on it while I continue to work and go to school here as I make a pretty good income here that I might not get moving somewhere else. And I could learn my boat and refine my skills locally where if anything goes seriously wrong in the first little bit at least I'm still at home port. This is still the general plan.

[double u]

Whatever way you’ll follow: good luck to you! The decision for a boat/cruising life & against a”normal” career is the right one, it’s very unlikely that you’ll ever regret it. (I never did, at 20 I started building a plywood boat - & returned at 33 from the first of what were to become 3 rtw. Now at 64 I have to say: it was worth every bit)
GO FOR IT!!! (but don’t let ALL decisions be purely emotional ones!)

[Larry Miranda]

Originally Posted by double u

Whatever way you’ll follow: good luck to you! The decision for a boat/cruising life & against a”normal” career is the right one, it’s very unlikely that you’ll ever regret it. (I never did, at 20 I started building a plywood boat - & returned at 33 from the first of what were to become 3 rtw. Now at 64 I have to say: it was worth every bit)
GO FOR IT!!! (but don’t let ALL decisions be purely emotional ones!)

I second this and add do not limit yourself.



You spoke of going to the east coast. That is why I was suggesting doing this area first(Europe) I understand the mindset of starting close to home for when all goes bad. Consider that = as on a boat essentially you are on your own.



Think about that situation as a possible first step. See how you handle yourself with yourself. I think this is why most are saying get a 14-19 ft boat first. Makes sense. I am on the same thinking and I am hoping over the new year I will have a small 17 sailor with a cabin, but I am still looking for a bigger boat for longer passages. No losses money well spent



But also on the do not limit yourself point Think about your skill set and short work contracts. Welders in the oil and gas are in high demand. In risky areas even more so! You could make serious cash in 3 months middle east. then 9 months on the boat...just saying....


When I said vacation I was speaking of being self employed...its your 24hrs 7 days a week, work when you need to. the rest is like permanent vacation. With the digital age it is even easier to work remote, Just need that wifi! tends to be a problem in Paradises. But again u are here to try and figure it out.
I lived in Vancouver and up in the islands for many years it is a Beautiful area for sure I never went past Sidney Island but I am sure the Seattle area is the same Beauty as well.

[bobrosie]

Boats are holes in the water into which you pour money. So true. I suggest you're not ready to buy a boat financially or with sufficient knowledge of what sailing is like. Take the advice of those who suggest you learn to sail on someone else's boat as a crewmember and do it as often and you can in all kinds of weather and water. You may find that sailing isn't the end all and be all you think from your armchair and books experiences. If after real experience, you're in love with sailing, study the stories of single-handers. Remember, a gaff-rigged boat looks great observed from somewhere else. When you're sailing it yourself, you don't get that romantic view for which you've undertaken more complexity than needed.
So pay off your debts, save some money while crewing, get a smaller inexpensive boat to learn single-handing, and then go for the world cruise with the experience and boat required to enjoy the trip and come home safe.

[Svan]

Your skills will serve you well in the warmer climates, lots of stuff to get fixed underwater in the Bahamas right now. And everyone wants to learn diving where the water is nice. Some friends make their living off the beach in cancun MX running a dive shop and live a good life (not sailors).

If you want to stay out west for family reasons make sure they won’t get more pressing the longer you wait. Parents age with or without you.

If you are firm in your logistics for your body then choose your boat logistics to suit. Find boats to crew on out west and reserve the boat purchase for when you want to move east. Do not plan to reposition a west coast boat to east coast.

Any approach at all involving baby steps is way easier than finding and maintaining a boat of your own. Use the savings to charter. If you think you like Maine you could charter on Georgian Bay and fill two weeks in similar area with no salt water.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by MuffinMan

That is exactly the plan. The posts on earlier pages about staying in Seattle or moving to the east coast was about this plan exactly. I planned to buy a boat so I can shed this crazy expensive apt. I would live on it while I continue to work and go to school here as I make a pretty good income here that I might not get moving somewhere else. And I could learn my boat and refine my skills locally where if anything goes seriously wrong in the first little bit at least I'm still at home port. This is still the general plan.

About every third guy that gets out of the navy has this same plan.

At this time, there are at least 3-4 boats that I know of that are for sale by a guys that planned to live on them while they went to school and or worked to save money.

It's simply not the best way to live while doing those things otherwise the marinas here would be filled up with single exnavy guys living on boats

This is just from my experience the last few years watching folks come and go.

There is one guy that is an active duty yeoman that is married and is still living the life aboard. His boat I believe is a 45' Morgan. He and the wife did move off the boat for a few weeks when it got really cold here a couple years ago and stayed with friends. They couldn't keep the boat warm enough.

He rides his bike to work which is across the creek (Little Creek) and gets there much faster than if he drove due to the crazy traffic. He handles all the paperwork etc for the Seals that come and go from that base is my understanding. I'd guess he is mid to late 30's

His main regret is that he doesn't sail his "home" very much.