Windows vs Linux vs MacOS vs Others

[Invictus69]

Tried to search for a similar thread in order not to duplicate but unsuccessfully, so here is my question:

Wondering whether Linux can be used as the main (and only) OS onboard or for whatever reasons (mainly convenient apps) Windows or MacOS must be available as well?

I am wondering about people's practical experiences in connecting various instruments and other on-board electronics to a Linux machine.

As Linux can bring old laptops back to a good life with decent performance I would assume it would be used more broadly although I see still being used more by people with tech background.

Cheers!

[Ratfish]

I've been running Linux exclusively since the mid '90's, so yes it can be done.
So long as your peripherals are NMEA compliant hooking them up is no big deal. Nowadays, it's mostly a matter of plugging in a USB dongle and setting the config options in your software. (Opencpn in my case)

[QBF]

I've been running Linux as my main operating system for 9-years. Mostly Linux Mint with Cinnamon desktop. I also have Windows 7 running in a virtual Machine when I need to run something in Windows.

[barnakiel]

Here from a Windows guy (with extensive Linux/Android experiences): Linux CAN be used as the only system onboard.

I use Windows on our netbooks (XP, 8.1, 10 Pro) and Android on our tablet and smartphone.

I have used Ubuntu as well as a number of other varieties of Linux (Mint, Zorin, etc.) - both in the box and on the actual machine.

I am not sure you are gaining anything as the cost of bringing an old machine up to speed and 100% functional is often not worth the dollars spent. Most old machines are gone because their batteries are gone and at times other components. Another negative factor is that an up to date Linux is as much a system hog as (e.g.) Windows is, so you do not grab any old laptop and set it up with a new Linux.

Meanwhile you can buy new Android or Windows tablets / netbooks at 100 to 200 USD a piece - with strong processors, more memory and new batteries.

So, to me, the answer is: yes you 100% can, but why should you.

Cheers,
b.

[CarCode]

Recently I've read from a developer:
You must decide either to be plug and play (Mac way), plug and possibly play (Win way) or plug and pray (for hours, with the settings, aka Linux way).
And sadly its not true that old computers are still good for Linux. They aren't either. Too much hardware problems.

Gerhard

[QBF]

Originally Posted by CarCode

Recently I've read from a developer:
You must decide either to be plug and play (Mac way), plug and possibly play (Win way) or plug and pray (for hours, with the settings, aka Linux way).
And sadly its not true that old computers are still good for Linux. They aren't either. Too much hardware problems.

Gerhard

You might want to take what that developer said with a grain of salt...

I own an eight year old Sony laptop and run Linux without any "Old Hardware" glitches. Windows 7 also runs in a virtual machine with no problems.

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Invictus69

Tried to search for a similar thread in order not to duplicate but unsuccessfully, so here is my question:

Wondering whether Linux can be used as the main (and only) OS onboard or for whatever reasons (mainly convenient apps) Windows or MacOS must be available as well?

Been running linux onboard for years, robust and free

Though no real dogmatic preference, a machine onboard running win is needed onboard to run RMSexpress , the winlink ham radio email software.

Otherwise day to day onboard it's a raspberry pi running Openplotter which is based on the Pi raspbian linux image.

Rock solid so far and very little power.

[Paul L]

I run mainly Windows systems with some Linux PCs. If you are asking the question then you are probably better off with Win systems unless you want to spend a lot of time on getting up to speed.

[wsmac]

As with many other things in life it's really about what you can find that works the way you want/need.

Personally... Windows is the least favored of the 3 main OS out there.
Possibly because I switched to Mac a long time ago and Windows just doesn't seem as intuitive.
But... Windows should do what you want on a boat.
You will have to live with the manner in which Windows is written/rewritten/upgraded along with the issues of security.

Mac... I dislike how locked-down Mac products can be at times. I appreciate that Macs are not targeted as much as Windows for attacks... but make no mistake... a Mac can be victim to security issues as well.
The cost is a factor with Mac also. But like some folk's Linux machines, I've had, and have seen, old Macs still running and working hard.

Linux... this is the only OS where you need to look at it like looking for a new boat! lol
While some distros are pretty close to Plug-n-Play (you still have to install! ), some do require a little bit or a lot of work... so don't be scared off but be forewarned.
You should really figure out what all you wish to do with your computer(s), then shop the Linux distros to find the one(s) that meet those requirements.
You can ask which one is 'best' and you might find people just winging out 'Mint', or 'Ubuntu', or they'll tell you, "go with Debian based" or "openSUSE".
If it's just to do 'computer things' like you would do with a laptop you walked and purchased at your local box store... you STILL need to know what you want as far as functionality.

Personally, I'm new to marine software/hardware so I can't comment on what works with Linux (nice to see Opencpn works with it!).

As far as using an older computer with Linux.... it works and it doesn't.
Again... which distro are you going with?
You can find pages of really helpful information on older computers, older hardware, that WILL work straight up with certain distros.... but you will also find some stuff either needs tweaking or won't work at all.

You can install Linus Whatever 0.0 and find that although your old Lenovo ThinkPad boots up, gets you online to this forum, and run your Opencpn... you no longer have Bluetooth, or your speakers won't run, or.....

Linux is great, in my opinion! More and more software has been created to help it work in the same arenas as Window and Mac... if you had been asking this 15 years ago... that would have been different!

Here's what I would do...
Gather as much FIRST HAND information as you can from people who ACTUALLY DO run Linux with the same software, hardware, peripherals you want to run/need to run. Anyone on the internet can offer you their opinion on why they like one system over another or one distro over another.
Anyone on the internet can 'play around' with Linux and think they have qualifying experience to give you advice....
But only those people who are ACTUALLY DOING what you are wanting to do... can offer up solid information for those specific things.

If someone runs their sweet Mint setup and loves it... but has never tied it in with OpenCPN... they cannot give you solid information on whether it works, which distro it works with, what you might have to do to make it work, and how old/what model machine you can put it all in and have that nice system you crave.

The caution about resurrecting an old laptop/desktop... take that into consideration... especially if, like a used boat, you do not know how it was handled during it's life.
Batteries, wall warts, can be major issues you might have to spend money on... providing you can get replacements!
Do you want to use CD's? Play DVD's? Can you on your proposed machine?
USB?
How's that trackpad working? Can you get that fixed, or buy a replacement and install it yourself when it goes on the fritz?

Unfortunately... well.... also fortunately... computers become obsolete after pretty short periods of time, when weighed against the next new wave of machines.
It's sad we expend so much of our natural resources to build so many new computers every month, every year!
It's great that we have some really helpful, exciting, amazing advances that wind up in our personal machines!

Find the Linus distro you think might fits your needs, then search the internet, the forums/groups for that distro to see what laptops work well, best, or not at all with it.
Take the advice you get from people who actually use THE system you want/need, and use it similar to the manner in which you see yourself using it!

Me... I'll stick with my TIMEX Sinclair 1000 and Commodore 64... they've been very very good to me all these years so why change anything? PLUS... as you can see... THEY'RE BABE MAGNETS! (with all due respect to women, of course!)

[AKA-None]

FYI Mac OS is bsd Unix under the covers so if something works under bsd then it can work under Mac OS. Full disclosure I've never installed opencpn on anything.

[AKA-None]

Originally Posted by wsmac

As with many other things in life it's really about what you can find that works the way you want/need.



Personally... Windows is the least favored of the 3 main OS out there.

Possibly because I switched to Mac a long time ago and Windows just doesn't seem as intuitive.

But... Windows should do what you want on a boat.

You will have to live with the manner in which Windows is written/rewritten/upgraded along with the issues of security.



Mac... I dislike how locked-down Mac products can be at times. I appreciate that Macs are not targeted as much as Windows for attacks... but make no mistake... a Mac can be victim to security issues as well.

The cost is a factor with Mac also. But like some folk's Linux machines, I've had, and have seen, old Macs still running and working hard.



Linux... this is the only OS where you need to look at it like looking for a new boat! lol

While some distros are pretty close to Plug-n-Play (you still have to install! ), some do require a little bit or a lot of work... so don't be scared off but be forewarned.

You should really figure out what all you wish to do with your computer(s), then shop the Linux distros to find the one(s) that meet those requirements.

You can ask which one is 'best' and you might find people just winging out 'Mint', or 'Ubuntu', or they'll tell you, "go with Debian based" or "openSUSE".

If it's just to do 'computer things' like you would do with a laptop you walked and purchased at your local box store... you STILL need to know what you want as far as functionality.



Personally, I'm new to marine software/hardware so I can't comment on what works with Linux (nice to see Opencpn works with it!).



As far as using an older computer with Linux.... it works and it doesn't.

Again... which distro are you going with?

You can find pages of really helpful information on older computers, older hardware, that WILL work straight up with certain distros.... but you will also find some stuff either needs tweaking or won't work at all.



You can install Linus Whatever 0.0 and find that although your old Lenovo ThinkPad boots up, gets you online to this forum, and run your Opencpn... you no longer have Bluetooth, or your speakers won't run, or.....



Linux is great, in my opinion! More and more software has been created to help it work in the same arenas as Window and Mac... if you had been asking this 15 years ago... that would have been different!



Here's what I would do...

Gather as much FIRST HAND information as you can from people who ACTUALLY DO run Linux with the same software, hardware, peripherals you want to run/need to run. Anyone on the internet can offer you their opinion on why they like one system over another or one distro over another.

Anyone on the internet can 'play around' with Linux and think they have qualifying experience to give you advice....

But only those people who are ACTUALLY DOING what you are wanting to do... can offer up solid information for those specific things.



If someone runs their sweet Mint setup and loves it... but has never tied it in with OpenCPN... they cannot give you solid information on whether it works, which distro it works with, what you might have to do to make it work, and how old/what model machine you can put it all in and have that nice system you crave.



The caution about resurrecting an old laptop/desktop... take that into consideration... especially if, like a used boat, you do not know how it was handled during it's life.

Batteries, wall warts, can be major issues you might have to spend money on... providing you can get replacements!

Do you want to use CD's? Play DVD's? Can you on your proposed machine?

USB?

How's that trackpad working? Can you get that fixed, or buy a replacement and install it yourself when it goes on the fritz?



Unfortunately... well.... also fortunately... computers become obsolete after pretty short periods of time, when weighed against the next new wave of machines.

It's sad we expend so much of our natural resources to build so many new computers every month, every year!

It's great that we have some really helpful, exciting, amazing advances that wind up in our personal machines!



Find the Linus distro you think might fits your needs, then search the internet, the forums/groups for that distro to see what laptops work well, best, or not at all with it.

Take the advice you get from people who actually use THE system you want/need, and use it similar to the manner in which you see yourself using it!



Me... I'll stick with my TIMEX Sinclair 1000 and Commodore 64... they've been very very good to me all these years so why change anything? PLUS... as you can see... THEY'RE BABE MAGNETS! (with all due respect to women, of course!)

Hmmm I've been in it for decades and never had that particular experience. Oh you meant old computers not old computer guys. Never mind.

[Alita49DS]

Originally Posted by Paul L

I run mainly Windows systems with some Linux PCs. If you are asking the question then you are probably better off with Win systems unless you want to spend a lot of time on getting up to speed.

I could not agree with you more.

Some years ago I bought a ThinkPad which had been "refurbished". Which meant that it had no operating system (OS) but Linux. Being keen on computing, I thought that was an interesting challenge. It was, and in some ways I was impressed. The bottom line is that my will to spend days coming to terms with the limitations of a fringe OS had finite limits. I installed Windows. The machine still runs fine. However, I no longer use it for navigation.

So:

1. Unless you are a geek, and/or are prepared to lose the will to live, forget Linux. Far too much pain for any gain.

2. Windows works fine - even on old kit. Amazingly so. Navigation programs have few speed demands. However, if you are prepared to put up with the financial woes of owning a boat, then surely to goodness the modest cost of a new PC is de minimis in comparison? But, that is only the beginning, you are still left with getting an NMEA input for full control or GPS. This can be neither cheap for the kit or easy for cable runs. For a start, you will need NMEA to USB.

3. Forget Apple/MacOS as, if you are asking this question, you are not in the group of people that enjoys being grossly overcharged to get indifferent hardware. For instance, and this in my view is a big consideration, no touch screen. You also have the same connection issue as with Windows. Possibly with knobs on if the shiny device with the indifferent innards only has USB-C.

4. The considerations for iOS are not the same. The tablets are cheaper and there are a number of excellent third party programs that are either free or reasonable. I can replicate and control my Garmin on my iPad - free. Via WiFi (or Bluetooth). I can use iSailor (fabulous charts) for a modest sum. All minimal pain to set up. The Apple gotcha - they can't resist it, can they, is that unless you buy the 3G/LTE version of the iPad, for a ludicrous uplift having regard to the real incremental hardware cost, there is no GPS either. So independent navigation programs will not work.

5. Android is similar to iOS and the devices are generally less of a rip off.

In sum, you need to decide which end of the telescope you want to look through. Setting up computer kit to work with old chart plotters and instruments can be an expensive pain. The cost of the computer being the least of it. Conversely, if you get a new chart plotter with built in WiFi and BT, or can add WiFi and BT to the one you have, then either an Android or iOS tablet will relieve you of nearly all of the grief. Further, you will be able to see your charts and instrument readouts, including, in my view critically, AIS, on more than one device.

I should say that I have gone down both routes over the years. Starting again, I would unhesitatingly go via the Tablet + WiFi or BT route. Easier, cheaper, more reliable and far more flexible. Just grit your teeth and throw the old computer in the bin.

If, despite what I have suggested, you cannot resist the pain then I have an Actisense NMEA to USB convertor for sale!

[zboss]

Why bother choosing? I have a MacBook Air and run macOS, windows, and Linux simultaneously. You can even use a windows app right on the macOS desktop.

[Reefmagnet]

Modern Linux installs easier than Windows in a lot of cases. Windows is evolving to be cloud centric which is something you definitely don't want on a cruising sailboat with limited internet.

You can test drive Linux using so-called "live cd's" without needing to uninstall the existing OS on your pc.

And, as said above, you can run Windows within Linux (or Linux within Windows for that matter) using virtualisation software. Easier to setup than it perhaps sounds, even for a novice. You just need a decent hardware spec to effectively run two systems side by side.

Finally, if you decide on Linux, it runs very well on low powered fanless computer hardware. There's obvious advantage there for limited power availability applications.

Personally, I wouldn't use anything else but Linux for an onboard Pc OS, but there is a learning curve if crossgrading from Windows.

[leftbrainstuff]

Linux can run just about anything. You can run windows apps using wine. Some mac apps are absent but there are plenty of alternatives. The only apps not well supported are 3D cad. I still run ProEngineer on windows.

We have been running linux dual boot with windows and as standalone linux machines for more than a decade.

You can run linux from a cd or usb stick for diagnostics and to recover messed up windows machines. You can automate just about anything from a bash script or python program.

There are many different gui skins for linux. The *nix command line has always been the killer feature. Windows still has dos like command line which is useless. I can do more in a single line piped command in linux than any windows os.

Our B&G system is linux, Noslinux, our raspberry pis, pine 9s and arduinos and nas and media server are all running a linux distro.

Running the same apps on a dual boot windows and linux machine will highlight what crapware microsoft operating systems are.

We also dont need to run anti virus crapware on linux. Much more secure out of the box. We run hardened linux on most of our devices. Linux is readily configure to be both secure, performant and small in size. Making it ideal for running on older devices and newer iot devices.

Updating apps is much simpler on linux too. The killer feature IMHO. apt-get on ubuntu updates the entire distro, os and apps. Microsoft's update approach is fragmented buggy, sneaky and registry screwups are a nightmare.

I also use mac for my work machine. Many apps dont work well on mac that are typically cross platform. Like inkscape.