Windows vs Linux vs MacOS vs Others

[Invictus69]

This is probably true especially if you are in the middle of the ocean and cannot browse Linux user forums for command prompt solution It is still in the realm of techies rather than mainstream.

Familiarity is also an important factor. However, I would disagree on performance and stability though. Linux is faster on the same machine (Manjaro Cinnamon vs Win 8.1) and in my experience does not clog over time as Windows does and you need to reboot Windows once a week at least to clean up the junk. The additional problem is this hot/cold reboot in Win8/10 where actually the system doesn't reset completely on hot reboot (fast restart).

[jsc7]

It is certainly true that a well-configured and managed Windows will be better than an unmanaged Linux. Linux will certainly hog resources, but the difference is that the user can control that use, whereas the Windows OS is not controllable by the user. Yes, if you just install a full Ubuntu and turn it on without doing anything, it can hog CPU, but you can modify it however you want to use minimal CPU.

I use Debian which has almost no CPU load at all, and the few processes it has I can configure to slow down if I want.

I don't know how you can claim Linux is less stable than Windows. I have to reboot my Windows machine at least once a week for security updates and other problems. Every time I install or remove software I have to reboot the machine. Also, Windows has system memory leaks that more or less force it to be rebooted at least every 3 weeks or so. My Linux systems run for months without rebooting. I have one Linux system at work that I haven't rebooted since last August, 8 months ago. Try not rebooting Windows for 8 months. Not going to happen.

As far as crashes are concerned. I have only gotten kernel panics on my Linux systems once or twice in the last 5 years, in every case due to hardware failures, like a failed memory card. Windows 8.1 Professional crashes on me on a regular basis. It says "Windows has encountered a problem and will now shutdown." Hope you saved your work. That happens about once every 2-3 weeks for me. If that happens on a boat, it can result in a critical system being deactivated. Of course, most users know better than to run a critical system on Windows.

[barnakiel]

Arghhhh. OK. If you are restarting your machine only once every 6 mths!

I have no observations like that as I simply turn off the machines every time I do not need them.

What kind of sailing do you do that requires a machine to be on, continuously, for 6 months?

Sure, this may be the case that Windows clogs up after 2 months while Linux will need three times as much time to stop responding. I do not say this is not the case, I simply never used any device in a 6 mths non-stop scenario.

b.

[Reefmagnet]

Some of these Linux comments belong in the 90's. There are a multitude of Linux distros now that provide solutions to a variety of end user requirements. And don't kid yourself on Windows support issues. For every search on a Windows problem on the internet, you'll need to wade through 50 nonsensical "answers" provided by clueless numbskulls before hitting paydirt. Just try solving your sudden "identifying network... - limited" or "This Windows is non-genuine" issue when it randomly pops up in the middle of a passage.

Even better, how about having your chartplotter application suddenly close and computer randomly restart and then have it force you to watch updates install at 3:00 am in the morning just as you try and navigate a particularly orny passage in the pitch dark because some geek thinks fixing a security risk caused by a buffer overrun is more important than your needs?

There are indeed good reasons *nix operating systems are preferred for critical embedded applications.

[nesscapade]

MacOS is the answer.

I run one of the biggest cloud computing providers in the country. Been running tech companies for 30 years, since the days of DOS. But what geeks like me have to remember is that it’s not about us. It’s about the general public end-user.

We manage 1000s and 1000s of mac, linux and windows devices. Hands down Mac is more secure, easier to use and cheaper.

MacOS is more secure because hackers target windows (more potential victims) and Apples does a much better job of security updates.

MacOS is easier to use (who would know to click on a Start button to Shut Down a computer?). MSFT is great, just not as good as Apple at the end-user experience.

And yes, MacOS is cheaper. Our clients/staff who use Macs need new laptops every4- 5 years. Windows, every 2-3 years.
Mac needs 1-3 hours of tech help / year. Windows needs 1-3 hours / month, fortunately you can find it anywhere, and that’s good, because you’ll need it. Linux isn’t an option for an end-user who isn’t a geek. Like all things sailing, spend a few $ more up front and you’ll save a ton.

If you like to tinker do whatever you like to tinker with. If you want a computer to use when on the open water and your boat/life is on the line, go to the Apple store and buy whatever laptop you can afford that has the most storage, then use it for 5+ years w/no issues.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

(...)

Even better, how about having your chartplotter application suddenly close and computer randomly restart and then have it force you to watch updates install at 3:00 am in the morning

(...)

Hours of NV App and OpenCPN use last time in the West Indies and not a single crash (Android). Now you are implying Windows is less stable than Android.

I will try to test a Windows tablet next time. But do not expect firecrackers as I would not expect a system that can process hundreds of threads every day while I compile, edit and watch video to suddenly crash 03:00 while running a puny piece of software code called 'a chartploter'.

And if your Windows 10 (because I understand only there the problem you discuss exists) asks for updates and this crashes you plotter App, then simply downgrade to 8.1 or upgrade to 10 Pro. I have one on each machine and they do not have this (indeed nasty) behaviour.

Nobody says Windows is the best platform in the world. But one glitch in one version does not make Linux anything more than it is.

I think I could use Linux for nearly anything I do here but I would not believe there are millions of users like me. In fact, vast numbers of people are not at all tech savvy. (Unless you are posting from Palo Alto, perhaps).

Cheers,
b.

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Hours of NV App and OpenCPN use last time in the West Indies and not a single crash (Android). Now you are implying Windows is less stable than Android.

I will try to test a Windows tablet next time. But do not expect firecrackers as I would not expect a system that can process hundreds of threads every day while I compile, edit and watch video to suddenly crash 03:00 while running a puny piece of software code called 'a chartploter'.

And if your Windows 10 (because I understand only there the problem you discuss exists) asks for updates and this crashes you plotter App, then simply downgrade to 8.1 or upgrade to 10 Pro. I have one on each machine and they do not have this (indeed nasty) behaviour.

Nobody says Windows is the best platform in the world. But one glitch in one version does not make Linux anything more than it is.

I think I could use Linux for nearly anything I do here but I would not believe there are millions of users like me. In fact, vast numbers of people are not at all tech savvy. (Unless you are posting from Palo Alto, perhaps).

Cheers,
b.

Windows updates occur at 3:00am by default. It will restart automatically if no user interaction detected. Staring at a screen isn't user interaction in this context. User interaction with plotter apps is mostly composed of staring at a screen. Join the dots.

FYI

Android is a variant of *nix.
MacOS is a variant of *nix
Linux is a variant of *nix
FreeBSD is a variant of *nix

On the subject of Windows tablets. I have a HP Elite unit sitting right beside me that is, and always has been, a paperweight because no one in the office will use it because it is unusable once loaded with the overhead of MS Office. Surface is Ok, but is moving into notebook territory.

A lot of those decrying Linux as a geek's OS requiring too much under the hood tweaking to work haven't tried recent versions of the likes of Mint and Ubuntu. Windows is a fine product. Most of my income is derived from Microsoft products. In the context of use as a shipboard computer however, Linux has a lot to offer for those prepared to learn how to drive it.

* Stable
* Runs on low spec hardware
* Updates can easily be totally and wholly disabled
* OS is free and comes in many flavours
* Application software is essentially free
* Can easily be transferred to new hardware without needing reinstalling from scratch
* Geeks can go wild with configuration if they so choose.
* Isn't going to evolve to a cloud-centric subscription payment model real soon now.

[sy_gilana]

To the OP.

If I said my Macbook Pro was a pile 'o crap, a whole bunch of people will get upset.
If I said Windows was a pile 'o crap, another whole bunch, but the first bunch will be nodding.

So here is what I will say. We changed to Linux Mint with the Mate desktop.
Its all working, never had a glitch, fast, stable, reliable, fun, interesting, safe, and does everything better than anything else we have tried at a way better price. Nothing on a cloud because there is no Internet out sailing.

Do yourself a favor, check if you have a 64 or 32 bi processor, head over to Linux Mint, look for the Mate desktop, download the ISO, Verify it, burn yourself a usb drive, and take it for a test run. (obviously it will be slow on a usb drive)

If you like it, install it and be happy.

Oh, enable the firewall, then head over to grc.com and test your vulnerability.

We have not looked back.
Openoffice replaces MS Office
OpenCPN native
GNUcash replaces Quicken
Thunderbird replaces Outlook
etc...etc...etc...

[GrowleyMonster]

LOL at MAC! But for some folks it is maybe the way to go.

Ubuntu is if anything, easier to install and set up than Windows. No geekery required. I imagine Mint is pretty much the same.

So why isn't Linux more popular, if it is better than WinDOHs? Simple. Linux has no marketing. Microsoft has probably a several hundred million dollar advertising budget. They have enough clout to basically force PC makers to install Windoze on every computer that they sell. Linux don't care. It's not a company. It's not about profit, at least not the OS itself. There is no money for ads and commercials. It is not forced down people's throats. Linux users are those who have looked beyond, after asking about a tired, closed source, insecure and unstable OS, "Is this all there is?" Linux will never capture more than 10% of user share because most people don't have the capacity or time to question the status quo on their own, and there is nobody to run ads and lead the sheep to this greener pasture. That's okay. I don't care all that much except that I hate paying the "Windows Tax" on an OS that I won't use, when I buy a ready-built PC.

[capt-couillon]

Have been running Navigatrix as a sole operating system for several years with no regrets... Custom distro based on a stripped down Debian/Ubuntu core, it will run side by side with Window$ if needs be. Built by cruisers for cruisers it contains a ton of pre-configured software including OpenCpn, Zygrib, etc. Good support through user forum. Free and runs on old laptops fine (Thinkpad t-40 t-60).

Just sayin...

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Another negative factor is that an up to date Linux is as much a system hog as (e.g.) Windows is, so you do not grab any old laptop and set it up with a new Linux.

Nonsense.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by chris95040

Nonsense.

Maybe. But I am giving my reasoning away while you play the smart guy and just say "nonsense". This is freaking easy, mate.

So let us know why the position I stated is a nonsense. Arguments, mate, arguments are required for a discussion.

Regards,
b.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

Windows updates occur at 3:00am by default. It will restart automatically if no user interaction detected.

(...)

FYI

Android is a variant of *nix.
MacOS is a variant of *nix
Linux is a variant of *nix
FreeBSD is a variant of *nix

(...)

There are no restarts on my 8.1 nor on the 10 Pro machines. How come? I am pretty sure at least one of them is up at 03:00 now and then. But I have never had a restart.

I have to run a test next weekend. You may as well be right and I may as well be exposed to a new quality.

The 03:00 hour - is it by BIOS clock or Windows clock?

Thanks for headsup, in any case!

And the argument from Unix does not work (for me). Fiat is virtually to Ferrari what Linux is to Unix. Now few will agree Fiat is a great car.

I used Unix (Solaris) when I worked in banking. It WAS awesome. But it did basically one thing only. It is easier to get great in just one type of activity. It is a bit more challenging to manage drivers, GUIs, databases, encrypting, comms all at once.

Thanks for interesting exchange!

b.

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Maybe. But I am giving my reasoning away while you play the smart guy and just say "nonsense". This is freaking easy, mate.

So let us know why the position I stated is a nonsense. Arguments, mate, arguments are required for a discussion.

Regards,
b.

You made a baseless claim, I called it nonsense. I think the actual information density of our posts are quite similar.

But (being based in reality) my claim will stand up to scrutiny to anyone who tries to install, say, Ubuntu 16 on an old beater machine and sees, to their amazement, that its snappy and responsive.

[IdoraKeeper]

Windows 10 is great for the purpose for which it was designed. The driver library is vast. It is however tied to the net and has a habit of grinding to halt when it wants to update. It's a bit of a geek project to use an older, less automated (unsupported) version of the OS but it's an option. We have an old Dell running Win 98 that is perfectly happy as a "hermit" laptop running the Nav program , fully integrated with the radar, gps ECT. That rig lives on my Dad's powerboat that has a large house bank. On Idora we are a bit more Spartan. I don't have room for an extensive nav station so I choose to run a RayMarine mfd with Navionix and repeat the display with one or more Android tablets I have. We also have several iPads that can be used. I prefer Android but would use whatever is handy at the time. The real issue is not what OS you choose but NMEA compliance with all you're sensors. Simple robust gear makes the most sense imho.