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Old 22-06-2022, 18:06   #31
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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent TV??

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Originally Posted by Rohan View Post
On my third TV now. I need one not just for entertainment - I use it for weather reports, watching how-to videos that I've saved to watch later, etc.

Short version of my history:

I can't find a decent TV for the boat anywhere. Household TVs only run off household voltage, which I can reluctantly work with, but have issues connecting to my audio system. However, TVs made for boats/RVs are not only more expensive, but picture is terrible. Plus, pretty much none of the 12v TVs are smart TVs that will play video files off a thumb drive. Most of them do have included DVD players, which is totally useless. Let's face it, in 2022 DVDs are as obsolete as video tapes.


Long version of my history:

First TV for the boat. Bought a standard Vizio 32" 1080p. It actually worked pretty well, although it was a bit large for the boat. But stores don't carry many 1080p tvs under 32 inches.
  • Pros: played MP4 videos. Had an audio out to play through boat speakers. Picture was great.
  • Cons: A little too big, used 110 voltage only.

Second TV for the boat. Got this Supersonic 22 inch that's designed for boats and RVs.
  • Pros: more energy efficient, and easy to hook up to boat speakers. Worked off 110 or 12v.
  • Cons: it just had an inferior picture like older generation TV. The color black just looked weird, and you have to look at the screen directly. From an angle, the screen looked terrible. No ability to play video files, so I needed a separate player, which means more wires around, which I hate.

Third TV for the boat. Was tired of the inferior screen, so got a Samsung 32".
  • Pros: plays MP4 videos. Picture was great.
  • Cons: A little too big, used 110 voltage only. But I expected that. What I didn't expect - no no headphone jack or audio out!! Grrrr Only a digital audio out, which means I would need a powered converter to run it through the boat speakers, which means - more wires!!



Geez Louise, how hard is it to find a TV that will do these things?

1. Good picture, and at least 1080p
2. No DVD player
3. Will play music, photos, videos off a thumb drive
4. Will run off 12v
5. Has a normal headphone jack or audio out
It's really easy.

Skip the thumb drive requirement.

Buy a monitor, not a TV. Go to wallmart or any place which sells this kind of stuff and buy a 1080p monitor with HDMI

AND...

Plug it into your PC.
Stream your netfilx on your PC.
Play whatever sources you have on your PC and feed it to your new monitor.

Feed your PC's audio to the aux in of your stereo (you have a stereo, right?) and shut off the hdmi audio. Your 8 speaker stereo in the cabins or outside will sound great. Your picture will be super, and you monitor (27") will be CHEAP and a 27 inch will use about 3 amps (sorry, the LCD takes power).

When we are shore side and have plenty of power we use the 27" monitor, When we are sailing or on the hook we use the PC's HD screen. (1.5 amps).

Pardon me, I gotta go watch Sail GP on my 27" HD monitor. Cool!
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Old 22-06-2022, 23:47   #32
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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent TV??

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Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
The time about that is: a small 300W pure sine inverter running a TV is very efficient DC-AC and is so close to just the DC power as to be meaningless.
The power saving when running a TV or monitor from a DC to DC converter versus a small inverter will depend on the specifics of the installation. Typically there is around a 10-20% saving.
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Old 23-06-2022, 08:21   #33
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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent TV??

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Originally Posted by noelex 77 View Post
The power saving when running a TV or monitor from a DC to DC converter versus a small inverter will depend on the specifics of the installation. Typically there is around a 10-20% saving.

Keep it SIMPLE.

I fail to see how it is worth it to look for native 12v devices (such as TV's etc) or invest in DC/DC chargers or converters. The amount of DC we waste with our main inverter is minimal and we control that by turning it off when we don't need the power hungry devices. (BTW, we don't watch or use a TV, ever. What we look at comes out of the PC) We save power by controlling the usage of the devices.

How is our installation simple: We use the main inverter to energize the AC outlets and plug stuff into them, like in a house, and turn things off when we don't need them.



Big Inverter vs small inverter vs DC/DC

Our Big inverter is a Magnum Pure Sine Wave Inverter. It is only 1000w but it runs the power tools, sewing machine, and everything else. When turned on it simply energizes the AC outlets on the boat. It has a idle load of something like 1 amp but it is hard to measure since it does not go through the ammeter (to avoid pegging the needle when we put heavy loads on it, yes we have analog meters.) It won't run the Air Conditioner.

The PC is a new one and it uses unmeasurable amounts of power on my system but it is somewhere around one amp, and its AC power pack is just plugged into an outlet. So if we are running the PC we either need the inverter to be on or be on shore power (although the PC battery will run it for hours). The 27" Monitor is also plugged into an outlet. While sailing or at anchor we just turn off the Magnum when it is not needed, and generally don't use the monitor when we are off of shore power so it is also turned off to avoid that constant power drain. With the PC and the monitor we've got about 4.5 amps of constant usage so that is a considerable load over 24 hours, the extra inverter load itself is in my mind somewhat minimal. We're taking about a load of around one amp to drive the big inverter, so what? But we do turn it off when not needed. While on passage we don't use the monitor at all and on the PC we simply put the lid down which reduces the power load to close to zero. We monitor AIS with the VHF radio, so having the laptop sleeping does not reduce our AIS awareness.

We have a small (175w) inverter which powers and recharges our phones and tablets. I cannot measure its idle load, it is so small. It is on an accessory breaker on the DC panel and it has its own outlets. It is generally powered on 24/7. If we switch over the laptop and monitor to this little unit it struggles a bit but I don't do it because it just does not seem worth it.

We do not have a DC/DC device. Could be that it is so efficient that it would be worth it, but we're talking about a small improvement over the existing devices so we have not bothered.

I am not pursuing efficiency past the point of diminishing returns, I save that for my racing performance.
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Old 23-06-2022, 09:22   #34
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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent TV??

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Keep it SIMPLE.

I fail to see how it is worth it to look for native 12v devices (such as TV's etc) or invest in DC/DC chargers or converters. The amount of DC we waste with our main inverter is minimal and we control that by turning it off when we don't need the power hungry devices. (BTW, we don't watch or use a TV, ever. What we look at comes out of the PC) We save power by controlling the usage of the devices.

How is our installation simple: We use the main inverter to energize the AC outlets and plug stuff into them, like in a house, and turn things off when we don't need them.



Big Inverter vs small inverter vs DC/DC

Our Big inverter is a Magnum Pure Sine Wave Inverter. It is only 1000w but it runs the power tools, sewing machine, and everything else. When turned on it simply energizes the AC outlets on the boat. It has a idle load of something like 1 amp but it is hard to measure since it does not go through the ammeter (to avoid pegging the needle when we put heavy loads on it, yes we have analog meters.) It won't run the Air Conditioner.

The PC is a new one and it uses unmeasurable amounts of power on my system but it is somewhere around one amp, and its AC power pack is just plugged into an outlet. So if we are running the PC we either need the inverter to be on or be on shore power (although the PC battery will run it for hours). The 27" Monitor is also plugged into an outlet. While sailing or at anchor we just turn off the Magnum when it is not needed, and generally don't use the monitor when we are off of shore power so it is also turned off to avoid that constant power drain. With the PC and the monitor we've got about 4.5 amps of constant usage so that is a considerable load over 24 hours, the extra inverter load itself is in my mind somewhat minimal. We're taking about a load of around one amp to drive the big inverter, so what? But we do turn it off when not needed. While on passage we don't use the monitor at all and on the PC we simply put the lid down which reduces the power load to close to zero. We monitor AIS with the VHF radio, so having the laptop sleeping does not reduce our AIS awareness.

We have a small (175w) inverter which powers and recharges our phones and tablets. I cannot measure its idle load, it is so small. It is on an accessory breaker on the DC panel and it has its own outlets. It is generally powered on 24/7. If we switch over the laptop and monitor to this little unit it struggles a bit but I don't do it because it just does not seem worth it.

We do not have a DC/DC device. Could be that it is so efficient that it would be worth it, but we're talking about a small improvement over the existing devices so we have not bothered.

I am not pursuing efficiency past the point of diminishing returns, I save that for my racing performance.

Of course, your boat your choice.

I was just pointing out the power saving that you are likely to make (10-20%). Keep in mind this does vary depending on the particular hardware, so it worth verifying the saving before hard wiring the project into place.

Personally, I think a DC to DC converter is simpler. There is also less to fail. An inverter followed by an AC to DC converter (brick) is a convoluted and complex way to produce the 19v or whatever is required for the monitor/TV.

The DC converter plugs into the house battery bank the same as an inverter. This can then be plugged directly into the TV/Monitor bypassing the “Brick”.

Another advantage of a DC converter is that the installation is neater and less bulky. The”brick” is not needed. The DC to DC converters are smaller than an inverter and small DC plugs can be used instead of the bulky AC plugs.

On the downside, it does take more time and some basic electrical knowledge. Finally, powering devices via a DC to DC converter is not an option if the device has an internal transformer. It is also not sensible for high power devices so do not extend the logic to all AC appliances. An inverter is still the best way to run some devices.
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Old 23-06-2022, 09:32   #35
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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent TV??

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I was just pointing out the power saving that you are likely to make (10-20%). Keep in mind this does vary considerably, so it worth verifying the saving before hard wiring the project into place.
Those of us that use the small inverters understand and agree there is a wasted power loss.

What you need to consider agreeing with us is that it is so small in this application to be meaningless really. Turning on my 300W inverter doesn't even make my amp meter move. And in my case using the small inverter, turning on the TV plus a sound bar for it, uses less than 1/2 the power of just turning on my main inverter. This allows use of any standard home TV instead of some special DC unit plus it is good to use to charge tool batteries or laptop etc.
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Old 23-06-2022, 09:53   #36
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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent TV??

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Those of us that use the small inverters understand and agree there is a wasted power loss.

What you need to consider agreeing with us is that it is so small in this application to be meaningless really.
Try powering the TV/monitor a DC to DC converter. The parts are only a few dollars and the wiring is simple. You can then measure the power saving and decide for yourself if this is “meaningless”.

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Turning on my 300W inverter doesn't even make my amp meter move.
This is only the idle current demanded by the inverter, it does not indicate the overall conversion efficiency of changing 12v DC (or other) to 110 or 220v AC via the inverter and then back from 110 or 220v AC to 19V DC (or other) via the “brick”.
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Old 23-06-2022, 10:08   #37
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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent TV??

I just assumed that by the time I get bored enough to watch TV again, VR goggles will be the thing.
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Old 23-06-2022, 11:57   #38
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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent TV??

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Try powering the TV/monitor a DC to DC converter. The parts are only a few dollars and the wiring is simple. You can then measure the power saving and decide for yourself if this is “meaningless”.
.
this is a perfect example of knowing the time to decide it matters nothing to me to "win" or "lose"

But I will say that if I save 25% of the power from watching my normal amount of streaming video to my TV that is 10Ah/day and meaningless to ME in the big picture.
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Old 23-06-2022, 12:54   #39
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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent TV??

That indicates you must be using on average 40Ahrs a day watching streaming video on TV.

I am surprised you are not interested in saving some of that energy, especially with no loss of functionality, but of course as I have already posted, your boat, your choice.
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Old 23-06-2022, 13:44   #40
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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent TV??

I have a standard HD TV , has a thumb drive socket etc. I run it off a little modified sine wave inverter that cost €80
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Old 23-06-2022, 15:48   #41
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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent TV??

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That indicates you must be using on average 40Ahrs a day watching streaming video on TV.

I am surprised you are not interested in saving some of that energy, especially with no loss of functionality, but of course as I have already posted, your boat, your choice.
Yes, like i said 10Ah “savings” are meanungless to me. It isnt like money that going to compound and grow. It is just part of the power i will make the next.

Plus i willing say I have lost the debate so telling me again wouldn't change anything.
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Old 27-06-2022, 07:09   #42
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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent TV??

I have found free TV's often around the Marina. Most are just people upgrading. I run my laptop to the tv with a good quality HTML cable and get great picture. Most of the time I have shore power so it is not an energy concern. But my 412 ah lifps SOK batteries could handle it with ease on a 2000W inverter. They also power 2 small fridges. I set my power rig up so that a dc bank runs with regenerative energy from a wind turbine and alternator when running. My AC side is run exclusively with solar panels, about 600W to my SOK bank as mentioned. If any side of that coin gets low I can charge from the other side if needed.
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Old 27-06-2022, 07:16   #43
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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent TV??

Weather reports and how to videos are for Tablets and Laptops.
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Old 27-06-2022, 07:17   #44
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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent TV??

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Not bad, but $484?? I could buy like three off the shelf TVs for that much.
Did you open the question by saying you've gone through three off the shelf TV's and want a better solution?
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Old 27-06-2022, 07:23   #45
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Re: Why is it so hard to find a decent TV??

One wonders if "marine" tv's are nothing other than 120 volt tv architecture with internals for 12V power adaptation...? anyone know?

An LCD household TV shouldn't require much of an invertor... A 30" draws about 1/2 amp.

I didn't even know 12V TV's were still made. I went through that 20 years ago, and they were no better back then.
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