What is icom smoking and is it legal?

[Statistical]

So at first glance Icom M510 is about perfect. There is a version which has no AIS onboard but can pull AIS from NMEA 2K network which is perfect.

Then the bad news. Icom in their infninite wisdom decided not to put an AIS port on the radio. You need a seperate adapter and it is wireless. Are you F***ing kidding me ICOM. N2K a rock solid wired network and your solution is a wireless adapter to pull in existing wired data.

I mean seriously what are they smoking. For the record I am not luddite totally cool with wireless links for non-mission critical data but when what you need is right there on the existing N2K network why would you design it that data can only be pulled in over a wireless link?

[Mal Reynolds]

Get the 605. They are amazing radios. Work incredibly well and last a long time. 605 comes with or without AIS receive.

If on a budget, get a used 604. You should be transmitting AIS anyway.

Oh, and if there is fog in your area, hook it up to a horn. The automatic horn is the way to go.

Maybe Icom engineers drive Subarus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEnp3A7juRI

[SailingHarmonie]

Wait...

You have AIS data available on your network and you want this cheesy little radio display to be your only and primary "mission critical" display of that data? Really? Seriously? I MUST be missing something...

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by SailingHarmonie

Wait...

You have AIS data available on your network and you want this cheesy little radio display to be your only and primary "mission critical" display of that data? Really? Seriously? I MUST be missing something...

No. How did you manage to reach that conclusion. AIS is useful for DSC calling. For the sole purpose of DSC calling AIS targets it is useful for a radio to be AIS aware

Two ways to do that
1) Internal AIS in the radio showing a list of AIS targets. Now this does work but it is highly redundant and extra cost given the network already has a much better AIS transceiver.

2) The radio pulls AIS data from the network.

M510 would be about perfect for that if they had just managed to put a dumb N2K port on the radio not come up with a stupid wireless to N2K link dongle.

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by Mal Reynolds

Get the 605. They are amazing radios. Work incredibly well and last a long time. 605 comes with or without AIS receive.

If on a budget, get a used 604. You should be transmitting AIS anyway.

Oh, and if there is fog in your area, hook it up to a horn. The automatic horn is the way to go.

Maybe Icom engineers drive Subarus:

M605 is great but 1) it is very expensive 2) I don't really need a radio with built in AIS. Yes that solves the problem at added cost but it really isn't needed.

An M510 (non AIS version) would be essentially perfect if it just had a N2K port instead Icom went soft in the head and decided people wanted to get N2K data using a proprietary wireless dongle because you know there is zero chance of that thing failing or having interference.

[Mal Reynolds]

M605 (non-AIS version)- $849 Commercial grade, NMEA2000 connectivity. Cheaper in the long run as I bet it will last at least 10 years.

M510 - $699

Used M604 - $280, no NMEA200. https://www.ebay.com/itm/20434158733...kAAOSwH8hkZq~w

I have a 604. It's fantastic. Solid and sensitive, like me.

Me love my Subi!

[tanglewood]

I agree completely. A wifi interface so you can connect to a phone app or other toys is just fine. But to put that in the critical path between VHF and nav data is the most dumb-ass thing I can imagine. And there is no loud hailer either without the wifi gadget. The 605 is nice, but just too big physically. I don't want to dedicate that much panel space to a VHF.

[ranger58sb]

I agree, too. The only guess I could make are 1) somehow that can make the M510 footprint smaller, and/or b) maybe they're intending that interface to service other radio models going forward.

??

The M510 seems to work OK. We just had one installed last month, replacing the new M400BB we installed in May 2022. Turned out the M400BB didn't have auto foghorn or listen-back hailer... even though their online comparison chart at the time indicated otherwise. (They have since modified their chart.) And we didn't have enough real estate for an M605.

We haven't had the M510 long enough to establish a track record, though...

-Chris

[denverd0n]

I think modern devices and systems are being designed by 30-somethings who think that everyone in the world depends on wifi and having their phone with them at all times.

Case in point, I am old enough to be on Medicare. I had (note past tense) a medicare insurance provider at one point who, for certain parts of their reporting and scheduling, would ONLY accept text messages with attached files. WHAAAAT!!??!! Okay, I worked in IT my whole career, so I am fairly tech-savvy, and use my smart phone all the time. But there are a HUGE number of people of medicare age who don't even HAVE a smart phone, let alone know how to send a text with attached file! What were these bozos thinking?

My guess is, like the designers at Icom, they were thinking that everyone in the world wants everything delivered to them the way that THEY want things delivered to them. It is a poor designer who cannot see things from the perspective of ALL (or at least, most) of the different types of people who will be their end users.

[hpeer]

Standard Horizion Gx2400 or GX6000?
2400 $380
6000 $420

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Standard Horizion Gx2400 or GX6000?
2400 $380
6000 $420

I have always used icom but this N2K over a wireless dongle nonsense I may need to widen my search.

On the Icom side here is how it stacks up
M330 - can't display AIS targets
M400BB - can't display AIS targets
M424 - can't display AIS targets
M510 - $700 (w/o AIS) + $200 N2K wireless dongle nonsense = $900
M510 - $800 (w/ internal AIS I don't need)
M605 - $850 (w/o AIS but has N2K link to get AIS targets)

Not only is M605 a significant amount of cash and far more bells and whistles it is also quite huge. Arguably M510 at $700 w/o AIS is more than what it should cost but if it had an N2K port I would just grit my teeth and accept it.

It is 2023 Icom. N2K is how data is shared between marine devices. It shouldn't be too much to expect for a $500 radio w/o internal AIS but having an N2K port for pulling in AIS targets.

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Standard Horizion Gx2400 or GX6000?
2400 $380
6000 $420

Thanks for that. I looked at both I think GX2400 looks like what I need. It has internal AIS which isn't a problem but I don't really need it. If they made a GX2400 w/o internal AIS (using external AIS over N2K) it could probably be even cheaper. How can SH do it for $380 and Icom can't do it for less than $850? There is premium and then there is stupid.

Anyone know for sure if you can pull up AIS target list on the remote handset (SSM-70H RAM4). It seems like you can but it isn't ever explicitly listed as such.

If so then GX2400 at nav station plus a RAM4 handset on the helm would be about perfect and roughly $500.

[hpeer]

Doing research the GX6000 does not seem to be a good choice.
https://www.thehulltruth.com/marine-...vs-gx6000.html

[Statistical]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Doing research the GX6000 does not seem to be a good choice.
https://www.thehulltruth.com/marine-...vs-gx6000.html

Ouch. Man radio companies are way overcomplicating things. Yeah I agree for my needs (and most recreational boaters) GX6000 would not be a good choice.

Not sure how radio companies are having such difficulty coming to grips with "modern" N2K based boats. It isn't exactly a new standard. Pretty typical today for boats to have both AIS data (due to transceiver) and GPS data on the network. The radio doesn't even need them internally it just needs an N2K plug to pull it off the network.

A hypothetical "GX2300" which is a GX2400 minus the internal AIS/GPS that pulls AIS/GPS from the N2K network for $100 cheaper would be even better but thanks for your help I think I am going to pull the trigger on the GX2400 plus RAM4 handset.

[hpeer]

I had an older Icom set up with separate radio and AIS BUT they were connected via NEMA.
This worked until the VHF died. First remote handset went and there was no replacement. Then the radio died.

So now I have an Icom AIS receiver and need a radio. As I have the mast down I may run a second coax and antenna.

Anyway, trying to sort this out myself.