Usefullness of HF-radio (short-wave radios) in the Caribbean and Pacific Ocean

[Tudorsailor]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

Here in Canada, one only needs the ROC(M), the same required for VHF, to transmit on marine HF SSB. Max 1 day course.

Almost worth a trip to Canada to do the course!

TS

[Gerrycooper56]

If the boat came with an HF radio then I wouldn’t take it out. The ‘standard’ HF seems to be the Icom M802 and with a tuner and antenna you would be looking at over $2500. If you then buy a Pactor modem (email etc) you’re up for another $1000 say.
An Iridium Extreme phone plus basic cradle, WiFi access point and external antenna would cost about $2000.
We paid $749 for 500 minutes good for a year so, for the price of an HF radio installation you can buy an Iridium phone and have enough minutes to last 2 years (or longer if you roll over unused minutes. The Iridium Go I think is even cheaper to purchase.

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by StoneCrab

So my question to CF ... are there any groups or sites other than the ARRL which maintains pertinent information which is relative to Cruisers? When I read about Cruisers in the South Pacific participating on nets, are they all legal?... or are they just using the equipment, figuring that enforcement is too difficult on a mobile platform?

StoneCrab, your research has provided some great information.

But, I think this discussion is conflating 2 separate things, and each has differing rules.
1. Marine HF SSB channels
2. Ham radio frequencies

Marine HF SSB
The use of an HF radio on marine channels is governed by rules of the nation state the boat is flagged/documented/registered. For example, for a recreational US flagged vessel using a HF radio on marine channels internationally you are required to have a Ship Recreational or Voluntarily Equipped License (which will give you a call sign) and a Restricted Radio Telephone Operator license from the FCC. These allow you to use Marine HF channels in international waters. So, if a "cruising net" is operating on ship to ship marine channels, it is legal anywhere in the world as long as individuals have the required licenses for their flagged country.

Ham radio frequencies
The use of ham frequencies requires an Amateur Radio license. An amateur radio license is valid for the country it is issued, in international waters, and in countries that have CEPT reciprocal privileges. For example, when I operate an HF radio on a ham frequency in Canada, I must append my US call sign with "/VEx" (where x is the Canadian zone I'm operating).

In countries that do not participate in CEPT, they may accept the US license as proof of proficiency, but will require a license for that country (basically you have to pay for the privilege of operating there). For example, when I operate in Vietnam my US ham license was accepted as proficiency, but I had to get a VN license with a new call sign. I also just got my ham license for Fiji. That means that you must follow the operating privileges/rules of that country.

So, for nets that are operating on ham frequencies you must call in with your call sign. For example, if you call in on the Pacific Seafarer's network (14.300 MHz) you identify with your call sign. Since this is a formal net, the net controllers will verify your call sign and exclude pirates (unless there is an emergency).
But if there is a local net on ham freq's in Fijian waters all vessels calling in should have a Fiji issued call sign.

WRT range via HF radio, it is highly dependent on frequency band, propagation conditions, and other factors. Radio contacts are possible from a few miles away to many thousands of miles away.

The important thing to remember is that the rules for operating on marine channels is different than on ham frequencies.

When operating on marine channels I use my Ship Recreational or Voluntarily Equipped License issued call sign. When I operate on ham frequencies I use my amateur radio license call sign.

With all that in mind, anyone with an HF radio can use the radio on any frequency when in distress.

Oh, and wrt to 2M repeaters....forget it in the Pacific Ocean, and you would have to have a country license if they even had a repeater.

With specific regard to this thread....

An HF radio is tool. It is a good back up to an Iridium Go. I have both, I use both.

In 2019, while crossing the Pacific @950 nm offshore I was unable to contact the USCG to issue a Pan Pan using the Iridium satellite phone connection because the signal continuously dropped. I started calling a Pan Pan on 14.300 MHz while my crew mate sent text messages to his gf via the Iridium Go. Want to guess who got picked up first? My Pan Pan was picked up on 14.300 by a ham in CA and related to the USCG who then tracked me back to SF under main after I lost my forestay. (BTW...yes...I also tried contacting USCG on emergency marine SSB channels with no luck.)

The HF radio is one-to-many. Iridium is 1-to-1. Maybe it's me...but if I'm sending out a distress call....I prefer 1-to-many, but will also use the Iridium, etc.

I am also an avid ham radio op, and that biases my perspective. While single-handing it's kinda nice to talk with someone else besides myself.

In my view...it's 2 slightly different tools....sort of like a pall-peen hammer and a claw hammer. Each has pro's can con's.

Ease of use....hand's down it's Iridium Go. But, also know that in some countries (China, India, Cuba) satellite phones are illegal.

[svtriumph77]

Originally Posted by StoneCrab

https://www.noonsite.com/the-essenti...cean-cruising/

An interesting write up on one person's view of why a SSB is more useful on the far side of the world. However, the trend is clearly away from SSB's being required for offshore races or rally's. If I remember from looking into it last year the Baja Ha Ha now requires the DeLorme/Garmin InReach, instead of a SSB, while a sat phone is mandatory for the Transpac now with the SSB being optional. Having a SSB transceiver on board your offshore cruising yacht is unquestionably a good thing and possibly fun too. But in this day and age to try and sell it on the safety angle is simply out of touch. I had a long back and forth with Gordon West on this point and, at the risk of putting words in his mouth, I think he ultimately agreed that the PRIMARY, and indispensable, emergency equipment on board a boat is a properly functioning and registered EPIRB. Next in line would be the InReach.

Here are the 2021 Transpac requirements straight from their website:

14 COMMUNICATIONS
14.1 Communication Requirements
14.1.1 VHF – Yachts shall be equipped with a VHF FM radio transceiver of at least 25 watts of power. The VHF antenna must be mounted atop the main mast. VHF 16 shall be monitored while racing. As a minimum requirement, the following frequencies are: VHF Channels 6, 16, 68, and 71
14.1.2 Satphone – All yachts shall carry on-board a satellite phone (Satphone). The satellite phone shall have coverage for the duration of the race and be connected to main power or have a spare battery. Satphones shall be powered on while racing. Yachts shall provide the Satphone number to the Race Committee.
14.1.3 SSB – If a SSB is present, the SSB antenna must be a permanently installed but may include a detachable link for yachts with no standing backstay (SSB is not monitored by Transpac Race Committee.)
14.1.4 Email – All yachts must be equipped to send and receive e-mail communications

[Discovery 15797]

Originally Posted by svtriumph77

I had a long back and forth with Gordon West on this point and, at the risk of putting words in his mouth, I think he ultimately agreed that the PRIMARY, and indispensable, emergency equipment on board a boat is a properly functioning and registered EPIRB. Next in line would be the InReach.

Gordon West is certainly an authority in this area; however, an EPIRB is a one-way communication device for "May-Day" situations. I would never deploy/activate an EPIRB unless I was ready to abandon the vessel. It is not a 2-way communication device which is primarily being discussed here.

InReach/Iridium Go is definitely a good choice for rallies and races where someone is monitoring text messaging and group emails 24/7. But, for casual cruising offshore and remote locales that is not likely the case.

The USCG and other SARs orgs do not use text messaging (yet).

This is not to suggest these are not good policies set in place by race/rally committees, but we should also understand the limitations.

[Tudorsailor]

Originally Posted by Pandor

And in the US, our FCC only requires a restricted radio operators permit. $70, no test required, and it never expires. I’m not sure I understand the point.

Presumably as a UK citizen on a UK registered boat I need to abide by the UK rules. Irritating!

TS

[sv_pelagia]

Originally Posted by Pandor

And in the US, our FCC only requires a restricted radio operators permit. $70, no test required, and it never expires. I’m not sure I understand the point.

OP ask what is required by other countries...

[Pandor]

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

OP ask what is required by other countries...

No, I’m not sure I understand why the FCC even requires US citizens to purchase a license if there is no test. I certainly don’t understand why it costs $70 for a fully automated licensing process that even makes you download and print your own certificate.

But I’m quite happy we aren’t required to take a 5 day test. I have my MROP in lieu of RROP and there was a test required for that. It was the most bizarre set of questions ever asked.

[ussvdharma]

There are AM and FM broadcast radios, there are HF, there are VHF and there is UHF. I have yet to see a "SSB" radio There is no such thing.


as there are emissions called am and fm, there is also an emission called single side band or "SSB". SSB refers to an emission not a radio.


Did you know there is DSB ? Probably not Double Sideband...and there is also DRm Digital Radio Mondale.


Some radios are capable of emitting Single Sideband. Etc., etc., etc.


W7KFI, 7Q7M, Susan ussvdharma

[Brian.D]

I love it when a question is asked, then a rabbit hole is dug. LOL

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Pandor

No, I’m not sure I understand why the FCC even requires US citizens to purchase a license if there is no test. I certainly don’t understand why it costs $70 for a fully automated licensing process that even makes you download and print your own certificate.

But I’m quite happy we aren’t required to take a 5 day test. I have my MROP in lieu of RROP and there was a test required for that. It was the most bizarre set of questions ever asked.

By treaty, operators of maritime radio stations must be licensed. Accordingly, the FCC requires and issues licenses.


Countries have the discretion to set license requirements as they see fit. As noted upthread, there is quite a range.

[GrowleyMonster]

If you can afford it, have both. Seriously. Do you only have one headsail on your boat? Only one way to cook? Only one way to pump your bilges? Only one way to put out a fire? There is a lot of overlap between MF/HF and satellite, but there are also things that one can do better than the other. Don't hate the SSB just because you don't understand it. Don't fear satellite just cause it is "modern".

[hzcruiser]

Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster

If you can afford it, have both. Seriously. Do you only have one headsail on your boat? Only one way to cook? Only one way to pump your bilges? Only one way to put out a fire? There is a lot of overlap between MF/HF and satellite, but there are also things that one can do better than the other. Don't hate the SSB just because you don't understand it. Don't fear satellite just cause it is "modern".

Totally agree with you, monster! OTOH, HF requires a fair bit of knowledge torun and keep the system going, and it comes down to the price and what you get for it, as in bang for the buck.
When it comes to pure reliability to reach out for help, EPIRB or sat phone are hard to beat nowadays.

[hzcruiser]

Originally Posted by Pandor

No, I’m not sure I understand why the FCC even requires US citizens to purchase a license if there is no test. I certainly don’t understand why it costs $70 for a fully automated licensing process that even makes you download and print your own certificate.
[...]

I was asking myself a similar question a few years ago. After thinking it over for a few minutes, it dawned on me that it's a brilliant solution!

You need a license to use the radio, the license is cheap, but if you abuse it, it gets taken away from you and if you keep using your radio, you can be fined big time!
In my case I was thinking about the small $30 annual fee for a fishing license in Oz. That money might not even cover the government costs to manage them! However, they expect me to read/know the rules to get the license. If I abuse it, it can be taken away, and if I then get caught fishing without a license, I'm in the deep brown sauce... and I can't even play dumb at that stage...

[southatlantic]

Originally Posted by BillKny

We have an SSB on board that came with the boat. We do long passages regularly, and prefer to cruise remote areas.

We never use it--ever, and kind of wonder what people DO use them for these days. Certainly nobody we have met has ever suggested that we meet for a chat on frequency XXX at 2300GMT.

I did connect it to the computer and confirmed I could receive weather faxes, but it is just so much easier and more reliable to get them by email through our Iridium, we haven't pursued it other than demonstrating it can be done.

If you are a more social kind of sailor (and not a misanthrope like me), you might need to talk to people, have buddy boats, partake of rallies, and radio nets. Then an SSB might be in your future. Otherwise, a good satellite system like an Iridium Go will probably get you everything you need.

If you are happy with a VHF radio in the Med, you'll likely find it meets your needs in the Caribbean as well. Of course if you are in Antigua, and need to chat with someone in Jamaica, that's not going to happen on a VHF. But if you are in the south of France you can't raise Turkey by VHF, so what's the difference?

That has been exactly my experience as well. I have owned the top model Icom SSB for 10 years. It was well installed, although I did have some trouble with stray radiation ( a common problem with SSB in boats). Other than radio checks, I only used it once (a fishing boat whose VHF was out of order needed to contact us). Iridium is much more reliable, infinitely easier to to install and use and , in and abandon ship situation, can be taken into the life raft with you. SSB is obsolete technology.