Urgent: at sea, need B&G autopilot troubleshooting

[donradcliffe]

Sounds like your skipper is in over his head. No fun hand steering 4000 miles to weather in 25k. Let me know if he quits.

Looking at the symptoms,here are some random thoughts:

1. Lost power to the autopilot CPU--most likely cause
2. Lost simnet connection to autopilot CPU--is the rest of the H5000 operating correctly?


The autopilot CPU requires serious power and its power supply can be overloaded by an unbalanced sailplan and heavy weather. The CPU has a 30 amp internal fuse, but the problem could be upstream, like an undersized breaker or bad wiring connection. Whatever failed gave some warning before it went completely, which could indicate saltwater intrusion in the cockpit locker. The blinking LED sounds like it could indicate an open circuit downstream of the breaker, but it also could indicate that the breaker tripped due to an overload or a short downstream. The autopilot breaker was undersized on my last blue water delivery, and I upgraded it before I left.

I'm not impressed with the cockpit locker seals on modern production boats, and water intrusion is a very likely contributor to what went wrong. It could be better to wait for better weather or head for an island anchorage before taking the top cover off the CPU.The internal fuse may have to be jumped if it is blown--the upstream breaker should provide protection.

The problem is probably NOT the DD1, and there are no fuses between it and the CPU.

The Simnet system is the cause of a lot of ******** and Guesswork problems. Failure of any component can bring down the network and make it useless, and intermittent failures will drive you crazy. I had a barometer sensor failure bring the entire system to its knees--no GPS, no speed, no wind--until I found it by unplugging each part of the network and waiting 2-3 hours for failure.

Merry Christmas.

[boat driver]

Past personal experience with B+G=

The Captain suggested it disengaged/steered strange prior to failure.
Check the oil level in the pump reservoir on the pump.
The level gets low particularly a unit with age and wear on the seals- and will basically get air over time causing inadvertent operations until eventually it shuts down. For whatever reason the computer diagnosis does not suggest/include low oil instead goes bananas with other symptoms. As a used boat and now being worked in an offshore passage this would be a logical sequence.

[ohthetrees]

Thanks mglonnro for the drawing and photo, very helpful.

Don, I appreciate all the particulars, very helpful, I’ll pass on. But I’m not sure what gave you the impression that he’s in over his head. I think it is very reasonable to ask someone ashore for some troubleshooting advice, someone with access to internet and phones. He had his hands full with a series of squalls, says the wind pilot is working well, and not showing any signs of considering quitting. Anyway, my main point is I appreciate all the specifics you gave. I’m feeling confident we will get this sorted.

[ohthetrees]

Originally Posted by boat driver

Past personal experience with B+G=

The Captain suggested it disengaged/steered strange prior to failure.
Check the oil level in the pump reservoir on the pump.
The level gets low particularly a unit with age and wear on the seals- and will basically get air over time causing inadvertent operations until eventually it shuts down. For whatever reason the computer diagnosis does not suggest/include low oil instead goes bananas with other symptoms. As a used boat and now being worked in an offshore passage this would be a logical sequence.

The DD1 is a mechanical gear driven unit, not hydraulic.

[JPA Cate]

Just a brief comment, here. The wind pilot will see him safe to Hawaii. Jim and I have sailed roughly 85,000 miles with a home made wind vane steering. Their average course is just fine, simply not quite as precise as an autopilot, and wind shifts, well we checked our average course about every 15 minutes in those days, and you'd need to correct for each wind shift....It is the compass showing a changed average heading lets you know to adjust the course. I'd expect a brief learning curve with it, if he's not familiar with it.

Glad Dan told you about the seals, 'cause I was wondering about that. Your skipper could try to slow the boat a little to reduce water intrusion, also.

Back in our early days, we had an autopilot fail 3 days out of the Societies. It was an unaccustomed stress to hand steer all that, watches were more tiring. There were just Jim and me, and it all worked out, eventually.

You and your skipper are getting a lot of support here, and I think he'has a good chance of getting the autopilot going. Where, approximately is he? How many days' runs out of HI?

Best wishes for a speedy repair/solution.

Ann

[Reefmagnet]

Sounds like a problem with the power supply to the AP driver. They don't seem to like too much of a voltage drop before going into panic mode.

[Mike Banks]

Start with the simple first. Check flux gate compass and make sure nothing large and metal has been put anywhere near it.

Check that no wires carrying any heavy current are anywhere near any sensors or the flux gate compass..

Check that there is power to all of the sensors, and check that all sensors are connected--and in particular the rudder position sensor--because if that is faulty for any reason, nothing will work properly.

If anything like these situations exists--a re-set will not achieve anything.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

Sounds like a problem with the power supply to the AP driver. They don't seem to like too much of a voltage drop before going into panic mode.

+1. My simrad did similar things and then died, turned out that the main autopilot system fuse was allowing voltage but very limited current to pass, replaced and no more problems, but was a bitch to find.

[ohthetrees]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Just a brief comment, here. The wind pilot will see him safe to Hawaii. Where, approximately is he? How many days' runs out of HI?

Best wishes for a speedy repair/solution.

Ann

Thanks for the kind words. They are headed due east from Funafuti where they got fuel after a week of no wind. Currently: Lat: S 8°23.5141' Lon: W 176°36.6341'

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

Sounds like a problem with the power supply to the AP driver. They don't seem to like too much of a voltage drop before going into panic mode.

Thanks, I'll ask skipper to check voltage with multimeter at the AP unit, which I take to mean the H5000 CPU Pilot in the cockpit locker.

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

+1. My simrad did similar things and then died, turned out that the main autopilot system fuse was allowing voltage but very limited current to pass, replaced and no more problems, but was a bitch to find.

Do you mean a fuse internal or external to the AP?


Thanks for all the kind help everyone. Skipper reports fresh conditions still, but reaching along nicely with triple reef main, rolled up jib, making 6-7kn due E (nice to make some free easting with this unusual wind direction!) and wind pilot performing well. He will do Autopilot troubleshooting when wind gets light as expected in a couple of days. I'll be sure to keep all you kind folks updated to what we find.

[kipwrite]

I had an autopilot failure on my 505 a few years ago, in heavy seas, which resulted from a failure of the Jeffa DD1. A fuse also blew, which resulted in the blinking light on the panel - there’s good advise here on where to find the fuses behind the panel. But in my case replacing the fuse didn’t solve my problem - which was a damaged DDI Drive. (I also got a ‘no autopilot’ indication via the B&G).
In the event your problem is not the fuse, I’d give Stig Jensen a call at a Jeffa in Denmark and he will have some advice on how to test that the Jeffa DDI is operating properly. His contact info is below. He is extremely helpful and knowledgeable.


Jeffa Steering
Stig Jensen
Tel: +45 4615 5210
Agenavej 43
Direct: +45 4614 1888
2670 Greve, Denmark
Email: stig@jefa.com
www.jefa.com

[kipwrite]

Here’s the instructions from Jeffa on how to test the DDI function - in case it’s not a simple fuse.

[ohthetrees]

Originally Posted by kipwrite

I had an autopilot failure on my 505 a few years ago, in heavy seas, which resulted from a failure of the Jeffa DD1. A fuse also blew, which resulted in the blinking light on the panel - there’s good advise here on where to find the fuses behind the panel. But in my case replacing the fuse didn’t solve my problem - which was a damaged DDI Drive. (I also got a ‘no autopilot’ indication via the B&G).
In the event your problem is not the fuse, I’d give Stig Jensen a call at a Jeffa in Denmark and he will have some advice on how to test that the Jeffa DDI is operating properly. His contact info is below. He is extremely helpful and knowledgeable.


Jeffa Steering
Stig Jensen
Tel: +45 4615 5210
Agenavej 43
Direct: +45 4614 1888
2670 Greve, Denmark
Email: stig@jefa.com
www.jefa.com

Thanks for the tip. Out of curiosity, was your DD1 mounted to the inner or outer quandrant arm hole? I’ve seen many reports of that DD1 unit failing when mounted to the inner hole. Haven’t yet found one failed when mounted to the outer hole. It was a factory error by Hanse to install to inner hole.

[kipwrite]

Yes, mine was originally mounted incorrectly on the inner hole. It’s since been repaired properly, as has the drive, by Jeffa. I had a Hydrovane installed, and I don’t use the DDI in any heavy seas, under any circumstances.

[ohthetrees]

Originally Posted by kipwrite

Yes, mine was originally mounted incorrectly on the inner hole. It’s since been repaired properly, as has the drive, by Jeffa. I had a Hydrovane installed, and I don’t use the DDI in any heavy seas, under any circumstances.

No problem since you moved to the outer hole? I really would like a robust auto pilot that I feel good about using in difficult conditions. May have to see if I can find a hydraulic unit that will fit in that space.

If you look at the original build card by jefa, the whole DD1 unit is installed at an angle, rather than on centerline as done by Hanse. Did you also revise the position of the DD1, or only move from the inner to the outer hole?

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by ohthetrees

Do you mean a fuse internal or external to the AP?

.

Hi, the fuse in question was external to the AP.