To SSB, or not to SSb...that is the question

[plebian99]

The real issue with SSB is not so much conditions or it being obsolete technology.

On the coastal frequencies and for the need of communications in remote places its still the king. Even in the recent Sydney to Hobart it was still being used for communications despite sat phones, trackers etc. It was amusing to listen in on the Scheds since so many trackers and sat phones were unreliable, broken down or just had issue. The Scheds on 4483mhz were 100% reliable. There was only 1 yacht which had a faulty radio and did not follow the correct procedures.

The big issue with SSB these days is the interference. Mainly from Over the Horizon radar and EMC/RFI pollution. The Chinese dragon radar jammer runs almost 24/7 jamming the marine and aeronautical frequencies. Most of the marine hf frequencies are wiped out by this Chinese jammer especially in the Pacific, Asia and Indian ocean areas. The Sydney Hobart race frequency of 6516mhz has suffered from this jammer for the last 5 years. Even in remote places now its impossible to hear anything in ports because of LED, inverter, switch mode power and other electronic noise. Which is really bad. Governments are failing to regulate the garbage electronics that floods our markets mainly from China that does not meet compliance and FCC standards. We have laws for this RF pollution however governments are not enforcing these laws giving the law breaking countries manufacturers a free lunch while residents in advanced economies have to suffer the full cost impacts of complying.

So noise/RFI/ pollution is undoing HF very fast in many places. The widespread explosion of solar inverters and micro inverters that does not meet standards is wiping out the HF frequencies. It would be smart to have both SSB and a Sat phone and as many other emergency communications methods as you can get access too. Blame governments who dont want to do the job that they collect taxes for!

[GRIT]

An interesting thread. I note that the folks naysaying HF communications completely ignore the fact that you can "crowd source" information over HF, and not over sat or cell.

I know that's been said already, but has anyone noticed that here we are "crowdsourcing" on a forum, which is pretty darn close to what happens on HF? Those saying HF is useless, should note that what happens here, happens on HF too. Nets, or general conversation, or group conversations are quite useful to you on here (CF), yet you find it useless over HF...

As I said, quite interesting!


Cheers.
Paul.

[alctel]

Originally Posted by GRIT

An interesting thread. I note that the folks naysaying HF communications completely ignore the fact that you can "crowd source" information over HF, and not over sat or cell.

I keep saying that and getting ignored, hah.

It's a different communication method. Not everyone is going to want that or find it useful, but saying it's been completely obsoleted is like saying cellphones made VHF obsolete.

Using airmail to get weather info for free and send emails was a really nice bonus as well.

[dannc]

Go curious and looked.

The number of HAM licenses in the US has increased not decreased.

https://blogws1sm.wordpress.com/2020...dio-licensing/

Total licenses have increased by 11.42% since 1997, reaching an all-time high of 755,952 in January 2019, but that only tells part of the story.

Other countries were mentioned:

Looking at some other countries, Germany’s ham population dropped between 2004 and 2005, but has steadily increased since, with over 81,000 licensed hams in in the most recent year of record. Japan’s numbers are all across the board. They saw the largest increases in new licenses between 1987 and 1996, with over 100,000 new licenses per year, but that decreased to a low of 15,896 in 2004, and it’s been increasing steadily since. In the United Kingdom, new licenses have been on a steady rise since 2005, going from 6,948 per year in 2005, to 21,791 in 2016, which is a 213.6% increase.

I wonder if the number of licenses went up due to the pandemic?

Later,
Dan

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by dannc

Go curious and looked.



The number of HAM licenses in the US has increased not decreased.



https://blogws1sm.wordpress.com/2020...dio-licensing/







Other countries were mentioned:







I wonder if the number of licenses went up due to the pandemic?



Later,

Dan

Interesting in the USA the total number of licences in 2018 was 755430, suggesting the trend is levelling off.

It should be pointed out that in my comments I was not referring to the hobby itself , I’m aware many new entrants in my club for example as involved in 2metre and especially digital modes etc.

I see little straight forward HF telephony though DX competitions are being run ( though setbacked due Covid )

The fact is for simple long range telephony or slow speed digital , sat comms is the easiest solution that does what it says on the tin

[plebian99]

I would not focus the HF arguments around ham radio.

1. HF radio in Africa and the Middle east is booming
2. HF radio in SE Asia is still high usage and still the prime telephone emergency comms platform.
3. HF communications in the Pacific islands is a primary communications mode for governments and police.
4. HF radio in Yachts, 4wd vehicles and bush communications is booming. Australia for example has the massive Flying Doctor network and the excellent 4wd HF frequencies which has saved and used daily by hundreds of people. For example in Westerbn Australian I can selcall Police stations on HF. You can ask all the offroad caravanners in Australia about how unreliable sat phones are compared to HF radio. HF radio wins every time. Same goes for New Zealand's whose governments were sensible enough to allocate HF frequencies for these activities.
5. Serious single handers still use it. The Golden Globe race and people like Jan Socrates were on HF every day of the week. Her success was primarily being able to communicate with electronics and problems that could have potentially stalled her record.
6. HF aeronautical communications is still the most reliable and most used HF network in the world. There is no other systems including satellites that is as reliable for international flights.
7. The increased move back to HF by military forces. Most armed forces are heavily investing in HF networks reversing the decline in negative and stupid thinking that thought that it was absolute. GPS, email and SMS on HF manpack radios makes it more effective than satellite equivalent services.

So from my experience HF radio is far from dying its actually daily usage is increasing. The problem with the decline in HF daily usage on the ham bands is primary due to modes like FT8 which has curtailed SSB activity. Hams dont want to use HF by calling CQ like they did in the past. They are sitting there waiting for the FT8 phone call!

I would suggest we will see this same usage decline on marine radio once a suitable mode that provides a HF version of AIS beaconing becomes the reality. The way AIS is being integrated into VHF with products like the Vesper marine AIS/MOB range is an example that could be applied to HF radio for cruisers. SMS on HF is another thing that will make it a primary communications tool. Just look at the latest Codan radios and RF Harris Mil manpacks to get an idea. I have used it and it would be perfectly suited to cruisers.

So always look on the bright side of life. Technology changes has brought about change. But as indicated in my other post. If governments dont fix and address the EMC RF pollution issues then HF radios fate is sealed for destruction because of EMC and RF pollution. There are other minor issues like piracy and jamming in places like SE Asia on band likes 5MHZ that are causing some issues. But this problem can be easily fixed and is being address by the pirates and their families getting cellular LTE coverage!

I dont think HF radio is going to disapear any time soon unless a destructive technology comes along that wipes out HF radio with noise. This technology might just be Electric vehicle wireless and the wide deployment of these could cause the destructive end of HF radio as we know it.

Originally Posted by dannc

Go curious and looked.

The number of HAM licenses in the US has increased not decreased.

https://blogws1sm.wordpress.com/2020...dio-licensing/



Other countries were mentioned:



I wonder if the number of licenses went up due to the pandemic?

Later,
Dan

[Brian.D]

Well here is a tool for you boaters who are also ham radio operators and have satellite on board.

There is this software called WSPR (pronounced wisper) Weak Signal Propagation Reporting. This software works with your radio to transmit and receive very weak signals for propagation reporting. You use the lowest power (which is probably 5 watts - 37dBm) on your radio and send out a signal. Other stations that hear you will report your levels. You in turn will report who you heard. This report is sent over your satellite system to a database and mapped. You can view the map and see who is hearing you and who you are hearing. Basically telling you where your signals are landing.

A simple tool to see what your boat is doing RF wise. Just a tool, not saying it will solve all your HF problems. But it may tell you where your best chance of landing your signal will be, region wise.

JMHO

[GRIT]

Winlink has propagation charts that work well for us, doing email and wx GRIBS.

[plebian99]

WSPR and all the ham digital modes are all excellent modes. We really dont know how long these modes will be around and whether it will be WISPR 1, 2 or 3 or FT4, FT6 or FT8. There seems to be a digital mode for every day of the week in ham radio that is not suitable for most cruisers needs.

The real issue is standards and standardization that can embed these modes into the radio to have interoperability globally much like GMDSS system HF system.

FT4 or FT8 could evolve into a SMS service for HF that could be embedded into a marine radio. FT8 in itself is a propagation probe that does a SNR analysis. So it would be perfect to do a quick path analysis on multiple frequencies.

Selcall Beaconing as used on HF commercial networks around the world is also a simple but fantastic tool. It would not take much to set up coastal stations with the ability to give selcall beacon connect responses.

ALE is another possibility. The technology is endless but there are no working groups internationally that are looking all the possibilities and options. I would suggest as Global Internet becomes a reality all of these options might instantly become obsolete. As the saying goes lets watch this space.

The bottom line is HF SSB radio with things like Winlink are proven. I doubt that cruisers have the time to endlessly experiment with alternatives when all that they need is something that works reliably. The market has delivered this option for them.

Originally Posted by Brian.D

Well here is a tool for you boaters who are also ham radio operators and have satellite on board.

There is this software called WSPR (pronounced wisper) Weak Signal Propagation Reporting. This software works with your radio to transmit and receive very weak signals for propagation reporting. You use the lowest power (which is probably 5 watts - 37dBm) on your radio and send out a signal. Other stations that hear you will report your levels. You in turn will report who you heard. This report is sent over your satellite system to a database and mapped. You can view the map and see who is hearing you and who you are hearing. Basically telling you where your signals are landing.

A simple tool to see what your boat is doing RF wise. Just a tool, not saying it will solve all your HF problems. But it may tell you where your best chance of landing your signal will be, region wise.

JMHO

[sck5]

I sailed to the Caribbean from the East Coast on two different boats. I installed SSB on both of them. On the first trip (starting 2010 or so) I used the HF fairly regularly. When I returned 4 years later on the new boat we also had a used Iridium phone I got on ebay (definitely a place to look for stuff almost never used. Mine came from another sailor and had the Coast Guard numbers on the east coast already programmed in there). We almost never used the SSB once we had good satellite communications.

Having said that, if I were crossing the Atlantic or Pacific (esp. Pacific) I would want the SSB.

Some of us regard it as a cool toy! No voodoo required, just slavish obedience to how it is supposed to be done. See for ex. Gary at Dockside Radio - exc. how-to

https://docksideradio.com/

[Andrew Lippman]

I've had SSB and Inmarsat for the past twenty years. In the early 2000's we used to rally between the Caribbean and Newport each fall and spring. We had SSB nets and checkins. My last SSB was a Furuno with an amplifier. On the boat before that I had it installed. We just connected to the keel for a counterpoise and it worked fine.

Inmarsat is quite expensive. These days, fleet one is about $4000 for the radio and $2K/year. (Being VERY parsimonious with data use...) But you get far better speeds than Iridium and we can communicate by phone, email, and SMS with home for routing and other information. I haven't touched the SSB in ten years. Land-based satellites are also proliferating for Internet access in remote areas. They might also start working at sea. I'm sold on Sats for safety. If you are not, then you might check on what cruiser SSB nets operate in your area.

I am now a coastal cruiser and my new Fleet One is resting in the basement. I probably will install no long-distance on the new boat and just rent Iridium for any voyages/races such as Halifax and Bermuda. It is required.

[argonauta1]

Yes, go for the SSB and Pactor and sign up with https://sailmail.com/. Why? The SSB is the only long distance com system available that can serve as a "party line". Satellite Coms are very much one on one thus networking and inter flotilla yacht communication can only be done off shore with HF. Interdependence among yachties is probably one of the most important aspects among off shore sailors. If you wish to be part of that, get the SSB. The Pactor is a logical add on giving access to low cost e-mail from mid ocean and a broad spectrum of weather and navigation information. Yes, get that Sat Phone as an excellent one on one device but to join the sailors' nets, you need the SSB. Forget the HAM qualification; just get the Maritime Mobile Radio Licence as most of the nets are on Maritime Mobile HF Frequencies.

[spendyrun]

I say 100% get a SSB radio onboard. Yes, it takes some practice to learn, but not that much to be able to do the basics - like call the USCG, get onto cruising nets, download GRIB files (requires a pactor modem and an airmail account), etc. The hard part used to be the counterpoise/ground plane part of the hardware installation and that problem has been solved with the invention of the KISS-SSB. I am speaking from years of experience, research, and use on all of the above. Good luck!

[nolagal]

Originally Posted by Alueva

Hi folks,

Happy New Year to you wherever you are!

I'm about to buy my first boat! Pretty exciting! And oh so daunting!
The boat sits in French Polynesia, I thought it's a good starting point. Plenty of water in all directions. The vessel only has a DSC VHF radio, but eventually I will have to cross large distances of water and I will obviously need other means of communication. Does it still make sense to install a HF SSB radio and a Pactor modem, or can I do without and solely rely on an Iridium GO?
Any advice and opinions very welcome.

Thank you in advance

You do need SSB if you are going to be sailing offshore. It’s best to have every form of communication available. Redundancy is key. We are long term cruisers and the SSB nets are often our lifeline. In a pinch Chris Parker will always relay a message for you. If you were just a day, weekend or short vacation sailor it wouldn’t be necessary but you are starting in the Pacific with, as you say, lots of water. Look for an SSB on eBay or other similar site. We replaced our Icom 700 that had an unfixible problem with a similar and great Icom 700 three years ago for under $200. So glad we did as last year during COVID lockdown we could communicate with friends and get useful info from countries all around.

[merrydolphin]

Originally Posted by Brian.D

So you don't have to run around looking for an answer, I will give you my opinion.

Satellites have a limited life span. Once the die, they are space junk. New satellites are going up all the time with new technology. Eventually you will have to upgrade your terrestrial based system to meet the new requirements. It could cost more, or maybe cost less. But probably new firmware may not be a solution.

HF runs on an 11 year cycle. But even when at the bottom of the cycle one can still communicate. The distance might be limited, but it can still be done. We are moving in to cycle 25 with a peak expected in 2025. This means communications will start to improve, peak, then start to decline with a bottom around 2031 or so. New technologies for HF Data is always improving, but the old technology is still available. Upgrades to radios are slow to come out, new radios are also slow to arrive. So the old Marine SSB you have will still work. Possibly the only thing your older radio might be missing is DSC.

So if you already have SSB, AND, Iridium Go, you should be fine. Adding is more of a redundant thing that is good. With IG, you really don't have anyone to talk to unless you call them. With HF and the bands open, you might hear other boaters chattering and you can always chime in. We humans need to hear other humans and interface with other humans.

JMHO

You are right. I totally agree. They are two different things. Both are best. I have had lots of benefit from SSB. And……it doesn’t have to be expensive. Buy used. It’s old tech and lots of it around. People try to make it seem like a big misters. It’s not. Easy to do. Attach strapping to a couple of metal through hulls to the tuner, jury rig an antenna to tuner, then connect rig to tuner and 12V DC. Done! I bought an Icom rig and tuner on VHF net in Mexico, total cost $350.
The SSB (and HAM if you want) nets can be very informative and valuable.