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Old 01-11-2017, 12:19   #16
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Re: Time Zero V3 vs Open CPN

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Experience trumps hearsay, so I defer to this.


I toy with the idea of going to Furuno myself. My B&G gear is starting to get old enough to start thinking about replacing, and it has a number of drawbacks, including not being really as stable as I would like for it to be. The new Furuno radars sound really good.

I've been very pleased. Our boat came with an older Furuno radar already installed, too old to integrate into the NN3D system, and the radar was working fine... so I didn't replace it. Hence not integrated. Otherwise the whole suite has been very good.

And then even more useful for us, since I can run TZ on both the home computer and the onboard laptop, mostly for planning but also as a full-up duplicate nav station when we're underway. (Without having to learn a whole new interface, get whole new charts, etc.)

That said, might pay you to watch a bit for what happens from the Navico/C-Map and Garmin/Navionics acquisitions, since those are some of the charts Furuno currently offers (for $$$). Here, we use the free NOAA charts, too. Not sure what the source is for charts in other geographic regions, if other than C-Map and Navionics.

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Old 01-11-2017, 14:42   #17
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Re: Time Zero V3 vs Open CPN

A bit of history:

Maxsea started life as an easy-to-use Macintosh nav program (hence the name). They ported it to the PC, and given the much larger market they abandoned the Mac (boo-hoo). It has been, hands down as far as I can see, the most full-featured package available, with extensions that are particularly useful for racers (at a price).

Once charts were integrated into the radar displays, the manufacturers started adding features similar to the full-featured nav programs. At that time Furuno tied up with (acquired?) Maxsea, and integrated many of its features with their MFDs. The NN3D MFDs (though apparently not the touchscreens) are WinCE boxes, almost certainly for ease/speed of porting of Maxsea software. I don't know where the TimeZero technology was developed, but both Maxsea software and Furuno MFDs benefited. (TimeZero referred to the no-lag zoom/pan.) Apparently the Maxsea name is now being retired in favor of TimeZero, but otherwise the software seems to be an evolution of Maxsea.

I like OCPN a lot, but it is absurd to compare it to TimeZero - at least at this time. For just charting, TZ supports 3D and multiple layers (colored depths, satellite photo overlays, as well as vector/raster charts). Personally I don't find these features all that valuable, but others will disagree. Beyond the charts the capabilities for displaying instrumentation is impressive. The list of features is quite extensive, and I recommend anyone interested to skim the manual to get an idea of what is available. OTOH it is pricey ($500 in US plus charts).

As for the charts (NN3D=NavNet3D) they are processed from the 2D sources into 3D by MapMedia, also a Furuno company? The sources are NOAA (US only), C-Map, and Navionics the last time I looked. Only charts from MapMedia can be used, but of course there is the choice of C-Map and Navionics. In the US market Furuno makes the NOAA charts of US waters available for free, and updates them approximately annually.

It makes a lot of sense to buy TZ for world travel if a Furuno TZ or NN3D MFD is aboard, so as to not duplicate chart costs and to have similar interfaces on the MFD and PC. I would still have OCPN with whatever free charts are available as a backup.

The Furuno NN3D chartplotters have an incredible array of customizations available. I have used most of the competing brands and they aren't even close. However for ease-of-use, they are a bit daunting to use (perhaps the touchscreens are easier - certainly the modal nature of the WinCE systems is a real nuisance). For non-technical types on a budget I would not recommend the old MFD8/12/BB.

Greg
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Old 01-11-2017, 15:41   #18
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Re: Time Zero V3 vs Open CPN

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Originally Posted by CarinaPDX View Post

......I like OCPN a lot, but it is absurd to compare it to TimeZero - at least at this time.

It makes a lot of sense to buy TZ for world travel if a Furuno TZ or NN3D MFD is aboard, so as to not duplicate chart costs and to have similar interfaces on the MFD and PC. I would still have OCPN with whatever free charts are available as a backup.
Greg
Thanks greatly Greg for the history and as a users of commercial Furuno Marine equipment, I have always liked their reliability

That reliability influenced me to splurge for just one MFD installed in the cockpit, which is where I really need the Radar display for small unlit fishing boat avoidance at night, here in SE Asia
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According to manual, a networked PC and monitor at the Nav table is all I need and it will display and control the new Furno Radar.

Also there is an App available for tablet control wirelessly of radar sensor
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I already loaded OCPN and as you suggest, will use it to network with other cruisers, but my key question is....
.. which Software program should I invest my time, to create data and learn as proficiently as possible.

TZ or just OCPN, given the hardware I have?
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Old 01-11-2017, 18:20   #19
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Re: Time Zero V3 vs Open CPN

Hello all,
I bought a boat with an old furuno plotter and Radar.
I have used Nobeltec on previous trips and due to the age of the furuno stuff and it not working with the ais have decided to scrap it and go with time zero software on 3 pc’s. I have been under way for 2 weeks and all is working well. The only problem is Nobeltec makes it seam that you can get a Ethernet gps, that is not true. I have bought a few gps pucks from amazon for 30.00 they are a small usb gps that works great. I have purchased a used tough book computer on e bay for 300.00, that is a pc that works in the rain and spray. The new Furuno Radar works great on the pc’s. I am happy with the way it is working. Much better than the old furuno Plotter.
The purchase included all the charts for the US and territory’s. The Bahamas was an extra 300.00 but worth it. The radar was around 1,700.00 and again works great on the pc. It is plug and play, the radar can plug directly into your pc or a switch using a Ethernet connection. I am pretty happy with my decision to go in this direction.
Good luck with what ever you decide.
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Old 01-11-2017, 18:56   #20
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Re: Time Zero V3 vs Open CPN

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Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
I already loaded OCPN and as you suggest, will use it to network with other cruisers, but my key question is....
.. which Software program should I invest my time, to create data and learn as proficiently as possible. TZ or just OCPN, given the hardware I have?
With your setup I would definitely have TZ on the big display, and would learn to use, and master, that first (after the chartplotter) because there is a lot of overlap between that and the Furuno chartplotter. They can share charts and routes/waypoints easily so movement between the nav station and the helm should be easy. Also it should be easy to have both display charts identically, which is important. Particularly with vector charts there are a myriad of options for what is displayed, the format/colors, and at which zoom level etc, and you really want all systems displaying in the same way. Once you have the chartplotter and TZ PC configured the way you like you can try to get close with the OCPN settings. OCPN should be easy to learn for the basics, and it has a lot of optional settings and plug-ins when you are ready.

Another fun thing to consider is transducer calibration. All of your systems should store calibration data, which you will want to be the same. But it turns out that many transducers, like your DST-800, can have the calibration stored inside and thus always put corrected data on the bus, requiring no correction in any display. I think the chartplotter, and possibly TZ software, are able to store the calibration in the transducer, but I'm not certain. It is worth looking into.

Greg
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Old 01-11-2017, 19:26   #21
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Re: Time Zero V3 vs Open CPN

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With your setup I would definitely have TZ on the big display, and would learn to use, and master, that first (after the chartplotter)

Turns out that many transducers, like your DST-800, can have the calibration stored inside and thus always put corrected data on the bus, requiring no correction in any display. I think the chartplotter, and possibly TZ software, are able to store the calibration in the transducer, but I'm not certain. It is worth looking into.
Greg
Thanks again Greg for helping me to decide and the heads up for the depth sensor.

FYI, my philosophy was to have basic stand alone Instruments that integrate with the Furuno MFD, but gives me what I need if the MFD display is down

The FURUNO DST-800 was part of that package is installed and tested, but not the quality depth transducer I would rely on.

Nice feature is you can connect more than one so I also have the more powerful (600W) Furuno 520-5MSD dual frequency bronze transducer for proper fish finding and sounder display in all monitors.

By calibration, do you mean choices to adjust for position of Tdx?
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Old 01-11-2017, 22:35   #22
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Re: Time Zero V3 vs Open CPN

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By calibration, do you mean choices to adjust for position of Tdx?
The depth can be offset from the transducer location to either surface or keel depth (or whatever you choose) - the depth at transducer is less convenient. But not just depth: the knotmeter can be calibrated as well. Usually chartplotters and other displays have a linear correction available (e.g. 10% up or down over the range). The DST-800 has an internal calibration that can be up to 5 segments IIRC, which allows a reasonable approximation for non-linear errors. The seawater temperature can be offset, although most of us non-fishermen have no need for that accuracy. Sometimes there are routines for setting deviation and offset for electronic compasses if not included in the autopilot system. IIRC the masthead weather systems can hold corrections as well.

I find it much less confusing to have the corrected data on the bus, rather than having corrections everywhere they can be displayed (with the potential for mistakes). It isn't a big deal; just a nice detail.

With 2 depth transducers, if mounted at different depths it could be easy to have mistakes or confusion. If they are each calibrated internally then the data on the bus should be nearly the same (assuming they are close or the bottom is flat). The DST-800 does have internal corrections available; I don't know about the other.

BTW do check for firmware updates for all of your devices. The chartplotter, if like the NN3D MFDs, will have a way of checking and updating the firmware in all of the attached Furuno devices. IIRC Airmar has firmware updaters built into its Weathercaster software. TZ probably has a way as well.

Greg
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Old 02-11-2017, 00:38   #23
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Re: Time Zero V3 vs Open CPN

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. . . .
That said, might pay you to watch a bit for what happens from the Navico/C-Map and Garmin/Navionics acquisitions, since those are some of the charts Furuno currently offers (for $$$). Here, we use the free NOAA charts, too. Not sure what the source is for charts in other geographic regions, if other than C-Map and Navionics.

-Chris
Chart openness is important to me -- will Furuno use different chart types? I use Navionics, CMap, and NV Charts on my B&G system.
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Old 02-11-2017, 02:36   #24
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Re: Time Zero V3 vs Open CPN

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Chart openness is important to me -- will Furuno use different chart types? I use Navionics, CMap, and NV Charts on my B&G system.
This corporate history is quite informative.
https://mytimezero.com/about

From what I can tell, the TZ is the operating system and it can calibrate and synchronize any charting system in raster/vector or graphic overlays.
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Old 02-11-2017, 05:35   #25
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Re: Time Zero V3 vs Open CPN

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I bought a boat with an old furuno plotter and Radar.

The new Furuno Radar works great on the pc’s. I am happy with the way it is working. Much better than the old furuno Plotter.
Sounds like your original Furuno plotter and radar were old enough so that integration just wasn't possible. I think that didn't become a possibility until the intro of NN3D on the MFDs and their intro of new radars designed to be displayed either within a split screen or as an overlay on the same MFD. Maybe 2008-ish or so? Something like that...


Quote:
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Chart openness is important to me -- will Furuno use different chart types? I use Navionics, CMap, and NV Charts on my B&G system.
I'm not as concerned with openness as I am with continued availability and especially updates... but I take your point. Can't predict at this point how Furuno (MaxSea. MapMedia, Nobeltec, etc.) may be affected by whatever Navico decides about making C-Map charts available and whatever Garmin decides about making Navionics charts available.

BTW, I did think of something I can do with TZ on the laptop that I can't do with the plotter itself... and that's ActiveCaptain integration. Our plotter is just too old (2009 install), doesn't have a way to catch that data, whereas the laptop is easily able to update AC data for off-line access when we're out of internet range. TZ on the laptop works just like any of the tablet/phone apps, in that regard. I suspect the newer TZ2 MFDs probably do integrate AC data though.

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Old 02-11-2017, 15:05   #26
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Re: Time Zero V3 vs Open CPN

Goish, out in the ocean I find OpenC more than adequate. Coastwise, I don't spend a lot of time glued to the screen anyway. SO, for me, OpenCPN is the way to go.
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