Time to upgrade the ST60+ series and ST network on our 411 Celebration

[sparticle]

Our Beneteau Oceanis 411 Celebration is enjoying it's 20th year.

The systems are a bit dated and tired.

The current as original fit is as Follows

Pathfinder 4KW Radome
Chart Table RL80C Plus
Helm RL70C Plus slave
Helm ST60+ Wind, TriData
Helm ST6001+ Autopilot Head
STB Aft Below the helm 400G Course Computer

Retro fitments in my ownership
Chart Table
Digital Yacht AIT5000 AIS with USB, LS Nmea, HS Nmea, and N2K
Raspberry Pi 4 headless AvNav Server
Latest UK and Europe O-Charts ENC's Via USB Dongle
connections
Ethernet to onboard 12v GB Switch
USB AITk5
USB in/out to Nmea cable (Digital Yacht) connected to E85001 Seatalk to nmea mux (this brings the ST data and send the Nav data to the ST network)
12v Nav station computer running Ubuntu 22.04 via a 24" 12v screen
All nav/route planning/navigating etc. is done here. AvNav is running in a browser.
Ethernet to the 12 v GB Switch
Also has latest OpenCPN installed as a backup and gets it data from the wifi cloud on board.
Latest UK and Europe O-Charts ENC's via USB Dongle
(Can switch to OpenCPN by swapping the AIT5k and USB to Nmea cables into the 12V nav Computer Ports already configured) OpenCPN will then drive the navigation.

Helm
Samsung tablet (temporary whilst I find a sensible waterproof version)
This connects to the AvNAv server and renders the chartplotter in a browser

Transom
Teltonika RUTX11 4G Router in a QuSpot custom antenna enclosure POE-powered
This is installed on the wind turbine pole just below the blade sweep.
This unit has been absolutely superb in every way. Both in port and at sea.
It provides 4G backhaul (100mb Plus down and 20+mb up in port) also provides the yacht wifi networks both 2.4 and 5ghz. It can also use a land based wifi backhaul if needed.
All data is accessible from the yacht wifi network and can be consumed by phone tablet etc. etc.

So that is that!

We are looking at upgrading and potentially simplifying the onboard network whilst future-proofing it.

The outline plan is to upgrade in stages.

Leave the Radome alone apart from replacing the RL80C Plus with an E80 Classic at the chart table. Allegedly compatible with the radome with the same cable connection.

Remove the ST60+ Wind and TriData and ST6001+ AP Head at the helm

Install a Raymarine ITC-5 near the 400G CC
Connect the analogue Wind/Speed/Depth sensors to it
Leave the Fluxgate and Rudder Pos Sensor connected to the 400G CC

Install a P70S STng AP Head and 2 x I70S MFD Instruments at the Helm
Install and Connect an E22158 STng to ST kit
Connect the STng to ST cable to the 400G CC
Connect the backbone to the P70s and I70s Chain via a T piece
Connect the E22158 backbone to the ITC-5
Terminate the network at the ITC-5 and the TPiece.

At this point we should have a STng/ST hybrid network with a new AP Head and instruments.

No changes at this point at the chart table I believe.

Does this seems a sensible way to go about this as we don't have the budget for new MFD's and Digital Radar. We can then extend the STng Backbone and add devices next year. W/S/D STng or other makes.

Any advice or guidance is appreciated.

Cheers
Spart














We also have a E85001

[nfbr]

Comments. I did gradual upgrade of my full RM setup. Big mistake and cost much more in long run. Bite bullet, do it. Or do absolute minimum in meantime. Mine gradually all died over 24mths. I was told and didn't believe it. It was true.

Samsung s9 tablets are IP rated. Love mine.

B&G best for sailing
RM best for global parts availability
Garmin best for newest stuff
NKE best for AP
Furuno Commercial best for reliability

Don't go STNG. Even RM only uses 50% STNG on their kit. The RM AP and MFD's are all N2K plugs.
Go N2K plugs and use adapters to STNG instruments
The RM 5 way adapters are not 5 way, they are 3 way.

The ST to STNG adapter is a special unit and plug, even though it kindof looks like a 5 way

Don';t rely on the chartplotter GPS. You need an RS150 or other GPS.

[sparticle]

Originally Posted by nfbr

Comments. I did gradual upgrade of my full RM setup. Big mistake and cost much more in long run. Bite bullet, do it. Or do absolute minimum in meantime. Mine gradually all died over 24mths. I was told and didn't believe it. It was true.

Samsung s9 tablets are IP rated. Love mine.

B&G best for sailing
RM best for global parts availability
Garmin best for newest stuff
NKE best for AP
Furuno Commercial best for reliability

Don't go STNG. Even RM only uses 50% STNG on their kit. The RM AP and MFD's are all N2K plugs.
Go N2K plugs and use adapters to STNG instruments
The RM 5 way adapters are not 5 way, they are 3 way.

The ST to STNG adapter is a special unit and plug, even though it kind of looks like a 5 way

Don't rely on the chartplotter GPS. You need an RS150 or other GPS.

Thanks for the comments. We did away with all the old GPS kit and wiring. The GPS feed is from the DY AIT5K and the Teltonika X11 is the backup GPS for the network. Both very latest GPS engines etc.

Yeah, I can see that the STNG 5 way only allow 3 devices. With the kit list above we are only really sorting the side of the network that serves the Helm. AP Head Instruments etc. So in a linear sense To the Right of the 400G CC STNG to the left ST. With the E22158 being the bridge via the 400G CC.

Are you power or sail? Interested in what you went from and to.

I think the above is the minimum to get to the new instrumentation and AP Controller.

You said yours all died! You mean the new STng stuff died?

Cheers
Spart

[nfbr]

Originally Posted by sparticle

Thanks for the comments. We did away with all the old GPS kit and wiring. The GPS feed is from the DY AIT5K and the Teltonika X11 is the backup GPS for the network. Both very latest GPS engines etc.

Yeah, I can see that the STNG 5 way only allow 3 devices. With the kit list above we are only really sorting the side of the network that serves the Helm. AP Head Instruments etc. So in a linear sense To the Right of the 400G CC STNG to the left ST. With the E22158 being the bridge via the 400G CC.

Are you power or sail? Interested in what you went from and to.

I think the above is the minimum to get to the new instrumentation and AP Controller.

You said yours all died! You mean the new STng stuff died?

Cheers
Spart

We stayed RM mostly.
Sailboat. 61ft Cat
Old stuff gradually got flaky. The AP issues for us were final straw.
We ditched anything not n2k at that point.

Also replicated most of helm at inside nav station. Great for night watch.
But does cost $

Oh, VDO Oceanlink tachs are cheapest way to get old engines to n2k

[sparticle]

Originally Posted by nfbr

We stayed RM mostly.
Sailboat. 61ft Cat
Old stuff gradually got flaky. The AP issues for us were final straw.
We ditched anything not n2k at that point.

Also replicated most of helm at inside nav station. Great for night watch.
But does cost $

Oh, VDO Oceanlink tachs are cheapest way to get old engines to n2k

Thanks.

Yeah getting usable Engine data not so easy on a Penta D2-55a the only way we can find that might work is the Actisense adaptor that connects directly to the old analog sensors.

The EMU-1 can monitor vital engine parameters such as temperature, pressure RPM and fluid levels from up to two engines.

It seems it is very hit and miss in terms of calibrating it. And of course you have to buy another adaptor to be able to calibrate it an actisense The NGX-1 or NGT-1 can be used to update the firmware, connect the Toolkit and display data on a PC for diagnostic and information purposes, using NMEA Reader. So it gets expensive fast. But in theory we could connect it to the fuel tank sender, Oil Pressure Sender, Temp sender tacho and water tank senders.

Just a bit daunting a task to do. You are right ideally we rip out everything.

New Digital Radar that uses an ethernet cable or much simplifyied cabling. A Chart table MFD and new helm station MFD, instruments. New AP Hydraulics and actuators controllers Etc.

A lot of dosh.

Just the list I had above is around £2K.

Maybe I will get something back for the old kit...Wishful thinking maybe.

Add a new AP setup and MFD's and there's another 4K minimum.

[nfbr]

VDO OL Tach takes old sensors and converts to n2k in the tach.

We drive 32yo AP with new Controller.

Radar works well for us as wifi.

[sparticle]

Originally Posted by nfbr

VDO OL Tach takes old sensors and converts to n2k in the tach.

We drive 32yo AP with new Controller.

Radar works well for us as wifi.

Which radar did you upgrade to?

You can connect it to the boats wifi network?

So it just needs power up the mast?

Cheers

[nfbr]

Originally Posted by sparticle

Which radar did you upgrade to?

You can connect it to the boats wifi network?

So it just needs power up the mast?

Cheers

RM radar connects to RM MFD by wifi. 12v
If you want more open std, Garmin

[sparticle]

Well first phase ordered. Decided to stick with Raymarine.

Various STng connectors and cables plus an ITC-5 and ST1 to STng adaptor to bridge the old and new. 1 P70S AP Controller and 2 I70S instruments.

See how it goes.

Cheers

[sparticle]

Just updating this for others.

We bought 2 x I70's and 1 P70S AP Head, 1 x ITC5, 1 X ST1 to STng Converter plus various backbone cables, terminators, plugs. 1 x RM Axiom 9+

We already had a N2K Starter kit from Digital Yacht.

So now we have the following setup.

Native N2K/STng
DY AIT5K -> GPS, AIS
ITC5 -> Wind, Speed, Depth, Temp
STtoSTng <-> bridge between ST1 (400G Course Computer) and STng
i70's <- READ all network data, AIS, WSDT, Navigation Data etc.
P70S <-> READ all network data SEND AP control information via STtoSTng to 400G Course Computer

ST1toNMEA E85001 <-> READS all data from network SENDS navigation data from AVNAV server via USB to NMEA connection to the E85001

AVNAV server (Rpi4 headless) USB to E85001 <-> READS all network data WDST, GPS, AIS SENDS navigation data WP info etc.

Old E80 Classic display is used as a Radar head unit and also a data repeater as it is connected directly to the STng backbone by a ST2 to STng cable. Will be replaced for a Large Android tablet when we decommission the old Pathfinder radar and replace it with a 'good network citizen' digital radar that will put radar data onto the Yacht's network for consumption by any device that can read it! Suggestions welcome. RM Quantum (2) does not seem to be a very good network citizen. We just want a digital radar that is happy to join an existing network.

We gave up on the RM Axiom 9+ as it was a very overpirced piece of junk useless unless it was the master navigation unit on the network. It was also a seriously crippled Android 6 based unit, ancient tech. Now a distant memory.

Next step is to rip out all of the ST1 stuff E85001 etc. Connect the AVNAV server directly onto the N2K backbone.

Hope this help ssomeone. We have learnt a lot going through this exercise.

Cheers






AVNAV Server